Solution to Global Warming????

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Jordan2379, Jan 23, 2015.

  1. Jordan2379 Registered Member

    Messages:
    1
    Hi my name is Jordan. I've been thinking about ways to stop/slowdown global warming. This might be stupid but you never know. I was thinking of a Mega tree. The mega tree is basically a huge tree that consumes a lot more co2 and lets out more o2. I dont know if you could somehow alter the DNA or what but it was just an idea that came to mind. Let me know your opinions on this anything would be grateful. Thank You
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. mathman Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,002
    The problem is quantitative. You would need a very enormous tree!
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,646
    A whole lot of normal trees might be easier, cheaper, faster and more practical. Overall, though, algae is more effective - which is why ocean iron fertilization has been discussed as a means of mitigating CO2.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,198
    No. As Billvon pointed out, big trees are not as effective as many fast growing smaller trees. The best of those is increasingly farmed in Brazil, world's leading producer of soft wood pulp. Photo shows close spaced tall (~30 feet in 5 years from a planted twig!) and straight trees without economically useless side branches.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    The eucalyptus tree is storing more carbon, with profit, than any other carbon sequester scheme is EVERY YEAR:
    * The GM eucalyptus tree boosts that, already high per acre yield, by 20%.
    ** Very short sighted reactions, by marginal populations that lives outside the "cash economy" on their subsistence level farms. - They need the cash paying jobs exporting coal displacement wood pellets could give them. A few years ago a group of these ignorant people, invaded a eucalyptus research farm and destroyed 20 years of genetic development.

    BTW if people would stop eating beef, Brazil would be a net negative CO2 release society! Most of the car fuel comes from sugar cane which is slightly net CO2 negative and less than 5% of Brazil's electric power comes from fossil fuels; but the world's largest cattle herd, does belch a lot - Brazil's main release of Green House Gasses! (and worse, large part of each belch is methane which is 100+ times worse GHG than CO2 for the first decade.)

    Ocean algae could store more carbon than the expanding eucalyptus plantations can, but unfortunately ocean algae mass is decreasing due to CO2's acidification of the ocean.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2015
  8. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Messages:
    5,160
    You are working under the propaganda assumption humans are causing this. You do not we see this as natural set of events that have occurred many time throughout the history of the earth. The way this scam works is temperature over the past 100 years is measured with thermometers and now with high tech satellites. Before 100 years, most of the data was not measured directly but is based on estimates like difference in tree rings. The modern data is accurate, but the older data is based on estimates. These estimates use assumptions, which can be tweaked to suit you needs, since we are only talking 1 degree in 100 years, so not much tweak is needed. We can disguise this data, since tree rings are rough data and reflect a season not each day.

    The term on-record only means when human started to measure with accurate tools. This limited data does not due justice to the billions of years before humans started to measure with accurate tools. This narrow accurate data field, and the much larger fuzzy data field, allows one to scam the system. You can buy a consensus with money since science does not have to be right to be funded. People who worked for the cigarette companies saw what they wanted to see; cigarettes are good, to keep their jobs from going away. They could do science to support it. The climate change money train is large and one sided, just like the data being used.
     
  9. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,890
    Yeah, what do educated intelligent climatology scientist know about it. You need to watch FOX NEWS to get the unbiased truthiness.
     
    pjdude1219 likes this.
  10. Ultimatum Registered Member

    Messages:
    6
    Oceans are the largest carbon sinks on Earth. We need stop faffing around with the "let's plant more trees" diversion and start pump-growing truckloads of algae in oceans. It is also much more economically efficient to do so this way.
    Also, we practically have an unlimited amount of space to plant such organisms, so we wouldn't have to find alternative means of doing things--like having to convert to Hybrid/Electric cars in 20 years.

    ~Ultimatum
     
  11. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,198
    NO. Not an assumption.
    This time is different BY MEASUREMENT! See graph of the CH4 below and read text telling why this NEVER happened before the arrival of industrial man.
    It is you making the false assumption that it has happened many time before - false as this time is different.

    First note CH4 is mainly removed from the air by reaction with the negative OH radical. I'm not a chemist but know it is a many step process but must be in net be something like this to balance out the reaction equation 2CH4 + 4OH + 3O2 ---> 2CO2 + 6H2O. The OH and the splitting of the 3 oxygen molecules is done high up in the atmosphere by harsh solar UV and the production rate of these oxidizers is thus limited by the harsh UV flux. Also note that four OH radical are needed to destroy two methane molecule and that they too are destroyed in the reaction.

    For at least the last 800,000 years, (ice core data) and probable for many million years before that, the UV production rate was faster than the CH4 release rate so, as you can see in graph below, the CH4 concentration was held low. (Destroyed by the relatively more abundant OH radical.) BTW, the reaction is producing water, a much worse GHG than even CH4, high up in the atmosphere. I think, this is the main source of water vapor up there in thin air, where rain droplets do not form.

    Now the release of CH4 is much more rapid and it is relatively more abundant than the OH radical. CH4 is stating to hold the OH radical concentration low. That means the average length of time a CH4 molecule "lives" - its half life is increasing. In 2003 the CH4 half life was 9.6 years, but in 2013 it had increased to 12.6 years. I. e. the half life is now increasing at about 0.3 years per year and the rate of increase is accelerating as the OH radical concentration falls. Fortunately most oil wells do now "flare off" the CH4 that comes up with the oil, and greater care is now being taken to reduce the CH4 escape for natural gas pipeline and gas well.

    As you can see in the right half of the graph below, which has a much shorter time scale, the CH4 concentration in the air is still increasing, but at a slower rate, in large part due to these more careful controls of the oil and gas industries as they try to reduce CH4 release. Counter balancing this, is that a "finger" of the Gulf Stream is now entering the Arctic Ocean and flowing along the Siberian continental shelf. Probably why CH4 from decomposing methane hydrates is bubble up to the surface now even in kilometer diameter zones. AFAIK, it never did that before either. Now subs can not use their sonars, inside these bubble clouds, or "see" thru them to the other side, but sonars worked everywhere in the Arctic Ocean during WWII.

    This inter-glacial period is different from all prior ones in the last 800,000 years:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    After air became oxidizing, the Sun's rate of production of the OH radical held the CH4 concentration low, but now CH4 is holding the OH radial concentration low.

    Even at the current half life 1Kg of CH4 does more global warming than 100Kg of CO2 in the first decade after their release. The amount of releasable CH4 holds more carbon than exists in all the coal on earth. I.e. for practical purposes*, there is no limit on how high the CH4 concentration can climb. That is why this time is not only "different" but very scary. May make humans and all animal that perspire to keep cool except very tiny ones become extinct. (The tiny ones, like small mice, have much higher surface to body mass ratios and also can/ and do/ spend most of the heat of the day in their burros at the average temperature and lower at night.)

    Thus the Bible may be correct in its forecast that: "The meek {the mice} shall inherit the Earth"

    Unfortunately Wellwisher has fallen victim to Big Oil's self-serving propaganda which is built on a half truth: I.e. that: "Climate naturally changes" and, falsely extending that truth to say: "There is nothing new about current warming." Big Oil, has well paid propaganda exerts who know this half true lie will trap many.

    What is new, is the sustained rapid and increasing rate of CO2 release, which is causing the much more powerful GHG, methane to be released faster than natural processes can destroy it, so every year its half life is now increasing at 0.3 years /year, with no limit man will live to see.*

    * Extinction of most mammals comes before CH4's air concentration ceases to increase. If anyone knows a mechanism for air's CH4 to stop increasing, please tell it.

    Of course Big Oil, lies and puts out self-serving propaganda - Why wouldn't they? If world switchs to cleaner, renewable, slightly CO2 negative, and slightly more powerful in the same IC gasoline engine sugar cane alcohol, as Brazil has done, they would lose at least a billion dollars in sales each year. For that, I'd lie too.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2015

Share This Page