Can this negative concerning a specificially defined God be proven?

If an agreed definition of a Universe includes the space for entities in which to exist and it is also agreed to exist you must exist somewhere, and then someone tells you God exists and created the Universe, doesn't it follow that God could not exist because He/She could not have existed before there was anywhere for Him/Her to exist? You can't exist before there was anywhere in which to exist and therefore could not have created the Universe.

So doesn't such a God under such definitions of Universe and existent disprove itself and prove the negative?

 

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God must follow laws of creation and nature. He can't exist outside of it or he won't make sense to us and he won't be able to be our God. I think God evolved as fire and created the 99 percent.

 

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Right, God can't exist outside of a Universe in which an existent needs to exist. So it would seem to me, given a definition of a Universe as partly a somewhere in which to exist, no God could possibly exist that needed to exist before They created a Universe in which things can exist. Without a universe, there is no where for Them to exist. By claiming God exists, you are tacitly accepting the premise that a god must exist Somewhere because anything that exists must exist Somewhere. If there is no Somewhere in which to exist, neither can a god.

 

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Sure. If you're willing to neglect the fact that all notions of God are purely imaginary which I think is the more effective tack to take.

The hardliners kind of have this base covered. They simply reply: God is purely metaphysical (except as Jesus and a few other demigods which complicates their argument) and therefore occupies zero volume.

A corollary which defeats this, however, is the question of what God was doing before the Big Bang. (Preparing Hell for those who would ask, was St Augustine's answer, according to lore.)

Their problem is that even God can't do stuff when the clock is stopped. It's impossible to "cause" the Big Bang without causality, which requires a clock to already be running. But the clock doesn't start ticking until the Big Bang begins. So by Big Bang theory God can't possibly exist.

It continues to surprise me that scientists tend to allow for the existence of God, as if to say no such paradox exists. That's why I prefer to address the question directly: God cannot possibly exist since every conception of God is purely an invention of superstition, myth, legend and fable.

 

I can't add much of anything to that as I agree with all of it. Well said.

 

I'm not sure that I'd want to conflate 'universe' with 'space-time continuum', but people sometimes do that.

That's part of the problem. Where are numbers located? Where are logic and the laws of physics located?

I'm not convinced that everything that exists has to have a spatial-temporal location. But assuming for the sake of argument that it's true, wouldn't many theists just say that God is in heaven somewhere?

 

Well define the universe. All things? If its all things then Gods natural evolution of knowledge and imagination and individuality would merely be the first things of all things not to be confused as existing outside or prior to the universe. Self is a representation of space you don't need space if you are space.

 

In brains.

 

If Heaven meets the requirement of "a somewhere to exist" then wouldn't that mean Heaven is part of the Universe? If it is, again, a god could not have existed before Heaven was created.

 

Space doesn't need space to come into existence. As well, consciousness is space. God is a representation of his own space as the father of consciousness. Space is the reaction of thought and imaginations greatest or most simple ancestors who ignited the universe like fire.

 

It sounds like you have reached a plane of understanding that is beyond my capacity to understand. I've read this like six times I still don't understand it.

 

I guess that we have to decide whether 'the universe' means

1. The observed spatial-temporal continuum, along with all of its physical contents.

or...

2. Everything that has being or exists in any way.

These two meaning of 'universe' are often treated as if they were identical and co-extensive, but they aren't.

For one thing, it's possible to imagine multiple disjoint space-time continua. In other words, even if we had a TARDIS capable of traveling to every point in space and time that's connected to 'here' by a continuous path, there might be places where we can't go, because no continuous space-time path connects 'here' and 'there'. (If we imagine a space-time continuum as a 4-dimensional bubble, a different continuum would be a second bubble that shares no points in common with this one.

It isn't totally outlandish, many physicists speculate about 'multiverses'.

OK, so is a separate space-time continuum part of this universe or not? That depends on how we define 'universe'.

If we define 'universe' to mean space-time continuum, then the answer is no. If we define 'universe' to mean anything that exists, then the answer is yes.

Applying this to God, if we say that God created the universe and mean 'universe' to mean 'this space-time continuum', then even if we insist that God has to be located somewhere (most theists would probably dispute that), we can easily say that he is in another continuum. (Call it 'heaven'.)

But if we mean 'universe' to mean 'everything that exists', then the idea that God created the universe has deeper problems.

 

Seems to me to be much more a plane of misunderstanding. May as well try to understand why dinosaur turds are worth their weight in salt inside the moon whenever ice melts on the tip of Mount Everest except when such is prevented by Bigfoot beaming a signal from Alpha Centauri 4 to Uranus.

 

The problem is the same however you define things. If a multi-verse, which can exist outside of what we think of as our universe, is the answer to where God was while creating our universe then it's also the answer to what came before the Big Bang and we still don't need God.

Theists have a problem with "something" coming from "nothing" and therefore supply "God". God has to come from somewhere however so where ever God came from while creating the universe is also where the universe could come from.

God simply isn't needed as an explanation for anything.

 

Some say god is outside of space & time but that is saying god does not exist.

 

the thing is though where does intelligence come from ?

there is the elements , the periodic table

but life is different , life draws these elements , into its self to manifest and therefore survive and evolves

 

There is no disembodied thing called "intelligence". It's simply a property of life. Just as their is no "purpose" to the universe. People supply purpose to their life.

Now you will probably ask, where does life come from

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We don't know for sure as we haven't been able to recreate it but it's some form of a chemical reaction rather than something supernatural. Life is incremental in its formation and development and not a sudden snapping of the fingers.

 

When you say God, you actually mean biblegod onlee. And you are correct about biblegod. But then there are other philosophies too.

1. Universe is the concomitant of God. Then there is not need for "before time" or lack of space etc. That leaves that God is timeless and unbound by space. That is one view of Hinduism.

2. Universe is emanated from and reabsorbed periodically. Again there is just one entity, God. That is another of Hindu view.

3. God and matter are co-eval, co immortal, uncreated. That is third Hindu view, and is dualist.

Note that none of these three provides for creatio ex nihilo. There are other schools and sub schools, but none accepts creatio ex nihilo.

 

However, their is no evidence for any of those Gods either.

 

But #1 is addressed fully. Pick a reasonable hole.

Hindus do realise, since before Plato was born, that there CANNOT be any proof for existence of God, and no proof to the contrary. Do me a favor and disprove the existence of God.

Or you are most welcome to explain the existence of universe, a lower target.