What is "time"

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Saint, Nov 9, 2014.

  1. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    4,098
    That's another Farsight troll. All the sincere posters...... LOL. Disingenuous bullshit meant to incite folks to being pissed off. It's so pathetically juvenile. That's a common theme in this forum. Anybody know which forums Trippy mentioned where they get rid of nonsense like that? Just curious.
     
    krash661 likes this.
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  3. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I think Farsight is banned from fora that Trippy doesn't even frequent.
     
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  5. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I use my eyes to read posts.
    Still you have not giving even one answer to my question:
    "time has no aspect I am aware of, not even just a smell. Can you tell me of one that is not just hypothesized by you with no evidence supporting that hypotheses?"
    You say there are "many" - if that were true you would not need these childish "duck and weaves" you have been using.
     
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  7. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    Do you know what they are? I'm tired of being pissed off when I'm on the Internet. If you do would you just pm me. Anybody would be appreciated.
     
  8. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    you mean just like how you shown me air ?
    you did not show me air. you just said, " feel it ?", nothing more.
    i was talking out of my hat ? was it not you who claims it's just motion, and yet at that significant example, time,all of the sudden, exist. is it because you caught your self on another contradiction, because you would have to have said, motion stops there, correct ?
    motion of what ?
    i'll ask in another form,
    how does great distances effect time ?
    another attempt at backpedaling [to try to escape the consequences of a statement or action by retracting it, modifying it, or toning it down] with an illusion. i'm actually shocked you do not understand the question, especially how you completely understand time.
     
  9. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Mass does exists but entropy does not as a thing. It is only descriptive of a trend in statics as I explained back in post 299, part of which was:

    " The 2nd law of thermo is only statically true - not necessarily so. Not a good idea to use statics as proof of anything. For example if there are four coins in a well shaken cigar box the most probable state (half heads or half tails) when the shaking stops and I open the lid agrees with the 2nd law. (max entropy or disorder) but every eight time I shake and then look (on average) all are either head or tails up - strong violation of the 2nd law. If there are 100 coins in the box significant violation of the 2nd law will be rare (but not with zero probably all will be with heads or tails up).

    This "2nd law" support of time being real, and having a flow arrow ("from lower entropy to higher") is just statically true - the law of large numbers it is called in statics. At the quantum level time if it flows at all, flows either way. "

    Don't become (more?) a boring troll. - Try to learn.
     
  10. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    2,973
    no you do not understand my post.
    go back to post #541[and a couple before that]
    then go back to post #555
    again all you're doing is sticking your fingers in your ears screaming na na na not true, while you laid down a hypothesis of your own.
    and also, i made a post about what i am saying. if you do not believe it, that is fine. at least stop accusing me of exactly what you are doing.
     
  11. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    6,549
    If mass exists it has a gravitational effect. Gravity is described by GR with a time coordinate. Time is the fourth dimension of our universe ie spacetime.

    Your example is an isolated system.


    I wont speak again. Because I'm such a boring troll.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  12. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    6,549
    I don't know how to PM yet...

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    Is it "conversations"?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  13. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    23,198
    Not much there to understand. In 541 you said:
    "you have to recognize what aspect of time is being observed."
    I agreed I have recognized none. and begain a series of questions asking you to name one "aspect" of time.
    All you have done since in four or five posts is "duck and weave" to avoid answering the question by giving one observable aspect of time.
     
  14. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    i'm not going to play the chinglu[or what ever their name was/is] games.
     
  15. OnlyMe Valued Senior Member

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    I think on this new platform, it is called a conversation. Click the person's name or avatar for any post. A box should pop up with a bit of data, including a link to start a conversation. I think. I also have not used the function on the new platform.
     
  16. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    23,198
    I don't know that game and was not asking you to play it.
    I only asked you to stop "ducking and weaving" and answer my question by giving ONE example of an observable aspect of time - you said there were many.

    Instead all you have done for five (or more?) posts is "duck and weave" to avoid answering the question. Keep it simple. No games.
    Just give one observable aspect of time.
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,543

    13.83 billion years separate you and I and them from the BB.
    Also Einstein’s SR tells us that different observers, moving at constant velocity relative to one another, require different notions of time, and to support that, their clocks run differently. Yet the same observers can each use their own "time " to describe what he observes and each description in each FoR, will give valid results, using the same laws of physics.
     
  18. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    6,152
    While I could see we might want to first agree on the meanings of "exist" and "observe" . . . surely you don't deny that a lot of things "happen" in such a way that exposes the reality of time. Do you observe velocity? Kind of. Does velocity exist? That sounds a little weird, so probably not. But meters per second has a specific meaning, as does any other unit per second. And it means something physically real. That reality has a natural structure, one which relates to time mostly in two ways: as rates (the derivative of something with respect to time) and as the complement of what happens to space during warp due to the Lorentz rotation.

    We can make a more complete list, for example, by expressing something that happens to be the integral of something else with respect to time. No information is added, but it changes the perspective people are polarizing around. So, for example, if we get past the awkward statement "power exists" we can express energy as the time integral of power. It seems a little easier to say "energy exists" (I guess), such as in the statement "light exists" or "gravity exists" or "a liter of air at 10 atm exists in this cylinder," etc. And in some cases it's practical to express energy in terms of the time integral of power, as in "10 kWh of electricity" which of course can be expressed in Joules.
     
  19. tashja Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    715
    Farsight, Prof. Hamilton said that space does indeed falls inwards. And sometimes, it even slows down and also accelerates! See this extract from his reply to Write4U:

    I mean, he said like four times. And he is mainstream.

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  20. Farsight

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    IMHO it's fine to say time exists like heat exists. A hundred years will kill you just as surely as a hundred degrees centigrade. But it isn't OK to say time exists as something we can move through. It just isn't like space. I can hold my hands up a foot apart and show you the gap, the space between them. And I can waggle my hands to show you motion. But when I try to show you time, all I ever show you is cumulative motion or change. It just isn't empirical like space and motion.

    What can I say, tashja? The guy gave you a fairy story. Space doesn't fall inward in a gravitational field. Look out of the window, and up to the sky. It isn't falling down. We do not live in a Chicken-Little world. The notion of inflowing space is totally at odds with general relativity. White holes remain speculative, and "space is falling outward faster than light" is definitely not mainstream. You might like to diplomatically tell him what Tom Moore said. Or not, as the case may be. But note that when professional physicists guys give you contradictory answers, they can't all be right.

    Billy: entropy is in essence "sameness".
     
  21. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    5,425
    There is distance and time. You holding your hands a distance apart means there is a distance between the two hands. If the hands remain motionless compared to the ground, then there is no motion, but the stop watch continues to elapse time, even though you hold your hands motionless compared to the ground. You age while you hold your hands apart. Your heart beats while you hold your hands apart. Your body is burning fuel in order to produce power so that you may hold your hands apart. You can't hold your hands apart for a long period of TIME, otherwise you'll get hungry, thirsty, and have to go to the bathroom. You're a machine, which is burning fuel and producing waste because you're an inefficient machine. (Bad design)

    On the motion of that waggling of the hands. Yeah, the distance changes in relation to the ground and yourself. The location of the hands change. In order to change locations the stop watch must elapse time. No time no motion. Period. See?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,543

    Wrong on all counts.
    Firstly, your continued boring analogy of waggling your fingers is childish in the extreme.
    Time most certainly exists, and is what separates you from the BB.
    Time is a 100% necessary property of the Universe, and neither you or anyone else is able to answer my question that has been posed many times.

    Secondly, "space falling into a BH is a valid analogy and for you to keep on insidiously ignoring that fact, just adds to your overall dishonest methodology.

    Thirdly the professors, all of them, have effectively dismissed your claims as nonsense, and in fact have suggested you learn some GR.

    Finally your "one upmanship game" that you seem to be playing, and the fact that you have been banned from other forums, along with publishing your own book with your fairy tales, reinforces the fact that you will continue to infest this forum with your lies and misinterpretations.

    Now some more facts. You earlier on derided both Hawking and Thorne as never achieving anything in cosmology or relativity.

    Stephen Hawking....
    Bachelor's degree in math and physics at Oxford:
    Master's and PhD at Cambridge University. :


    He has also won the Albert Einstein medal. Stephen Hawking was awarded Order of the British Empire by Queen Elizabeth the II in person. So he is Sir Stephen Hawk ing.

    Stephen Hawking has won the Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Barack Obama:
    Stephen has also developed a [1] Mathematical proof for BH's [2]Redefined the BB with rgerads to a Singularity, [3]Theoretical application of Hawking Radiation, [4] Showed the Universe has no boundaries, [5] General advancement of the understandings of BH's both quantum mechanically and GR.[6] Been the author of best selling books which he did not need to publish himself.[7] Lucasian Professor of mathematics.

    Kip Thorne:
    Feynamn Professor at CALTECH: PhD from Princeton:
    World's foremost authority on BH's and Gravity:
    Author of best selling book "Black holes and time warps"
    Worked with Wheeler and Hawking:


    Now there we are Farsight.....
    Now I realise that you will be tempted like all trolls and conspiracy adherents to denounce all of those achievements above, so I'm not really interested in your thoughts on that score.
    The immense value and prestige of he above are obvious to the accepted mainstream circles and your peers on this forum.
    Instead why not just list your own achievements and we'll see how they stand up.

    I'm fairly patient so take your time. Having me on Ignore will be no excuse, and any refusal or absence to list your own achievements will be treated with the contempt and mockery it will richly deserve.
    Here's your chance Farsight. Show us all what you are made of!
     
  23. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    4,752
    Did Einstein explain what is space time?
     

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