Time Travel is Science Fiction

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now you resort to grammar policing.

 

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Krash, you do have an obligation to make sense.

"the event occurs at the same time.
in california, it may be three pm.
in china it will be 3-4 am next day."

is babble. Why won't you tell us what you meant? I don't think the E-R bridge is any explanation. Time zones have different time designations but they are not the future or past as you seem to think. If you don't think this, simply say so.

 

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two things,
1)http://www.sciforums.com/threads/time-travel-is-science-fiction.140847/page-33#post-3246683
2)http://www.sciforums.com/threads/time-travel-is-science-fiction.140847/page-33#post-3246679
also, think about other physics that are involved with time and time travel.
this will help with overall understanding.

 

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You might find this interesting. I'll list three examples in response to comments you made in your post. The first is the relativistic rocket. The example is theoretically possible if we could solve some huge technological problems. At g_earth constant acceleration for 1/2 the journey and constant g_earth deceleration over the 2nd 1/2 of the journey we could reach the Andromeda Galaxy in 28 years measured on the ships clock. Measured on the Earth clock 2 million years would pass. So if the rocket crew turned around and came back to Earth 4 million years would have passed since the rocket started the journey.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/rocket.html

The 2nd example would be for the GPS. Derived by modeling the near earth spacetime with Schwarzschild coordinates. The formula is [12] in QUERY 8. For the GPS the satellite clock ticks faster [infinitesimal] than the clock on the surface of the earth [the v for the clock on the earth surface isn't an orbit. It represents the angular velocity at the earths surface due to the earth rotation on its axis]. This formula includes both time dilation components, relative velocity and gravitational. You can use this formula for calculating predictions for all the orbiting hardware in our near earth spacetime. As you pointed out the ISS clock ticks slower than the earth clock [the relative velocity component rules over the gravitational component for this event].

Choose the GPS project
http://www.eftaylor.com/download.html#general_relativity

The 3rd example is self explanatory, I hope. It's what I like to call the time travel equation. Skip the derivation and go to the example where the rocket warps from ISS orbit to the black hole. Sets up a knife edge orbit just outside the photon sphere, terminates the orbit and warps back to the ISS.

Problem 7, page 4-32, Exploring Black Holes.\

The derivation

Put the derivative of the effective potential term (from the equation of motion) into quadratic form (to find critical values)

r*^2 - L*^2r + 3L*^2 = 0

Where

r* = r/M, and L* = L/mM

Then divide through by L*^2 and manipulate to get

r*^2/L*^2 = r* - 3 [saving this for a later
substitution]

Setting dr = 0 in the Schwarzchild metric and
substituting dphi = (L*/r*^2)dTau the metric becomes

dTau^2 = (1 - 2/r*)dt^2 - (L*^2/r*^2)dTau^2

To find the ratio dTau^2/dt^2 divide through by the
bookkeeper time dt^2 and simplify to

(dTau/dt)^2 = (1 - 2/r*) / (1 + L*^2/r*^2)

Now substitute 1/(r*-3) for L*^2/r*^2 and simplify to

dTau/dt = (1 - 3M/r)^1/2

This following example uses the time travel equation in a way which might be interesting to you. Note that the time intervals dTau and dt are different but that they both measure time intervals as recorded by a clock in a specific coordinate system. dt for Earth and dTau for the spaceship orbiting the black hole.

Abe signs on with the crew of 'Warp Drive 1' while Bill remains on Earth. Warp Drive 1's maiden voyage is to visit a solar mass (M = 1477 meters) black hole, free fall to a knife edge orbit just outside the photon sphere at r = 3.000001M, remain in orbit for 172,800 seconds (Two Earth days) wristwatch time (dTau), and then return to Earth arriving ~ 9.5 years in Earths future. During the warp phase of the journey the ship remains in an inertial rest frame so the difference in wristwatch rate for Abe and Bill is minimal during this phase of the journey.

Lets make a prediction, before the ship leaves, to test General Relativity. What will be the difference in elapsed wristwatch time, dTau, for Abe with respect to the elapsed coordinate time, dt, for Bill when they meet upon Abe's return? Keeping in mind that dTau is measured with Abe's wristwatch (shipframe) and the coordinate time for
Bill is measured with Bill's wristwatch (Earthframe).

From the Schwarzchild geometry a time travel equation

dTau/dt = (1-3M/r)^1/2

Substituting 172,800 seconds for dTau, 3.000001M for r, and 1477 meter for M, then solving for dt

dt = 172,800s / 5.7735E-4 = 299298529.2s

Since there are 3.156E7 seconds / Earth year

299298529.2 seconds / 3.156E7 seconds / Earth year
= ~ 9.48 Earth year

When Abe returns the twins can determine whether the prediction was correct by just comparing clocks.

So you might play with this in the weak field. Set r for an orbit around the Sun. This equation includes the gravitational and SR component of time dilation.

dTau/dt = (1-3M/r)^1/2

 

Oh, stop it with the pathetic jokes and misinformation!
No one needs anything. All that most here are saying is that time travel is not forbidden.And obviously, quite obviously, any sufficiently advanced civilisation could achieve it.
And you whinge about false analogies?
It is really a pity that science forums such as this is open to every landau, Farsight and theorist constant.

OMFG! You just brought a tear to my eye and a lump to my throat! [tic mode on of course]

In reality if it wasn't for the dreamers of this world and those always striving to go one step further, we all would still be swinging in the trees.
How pathetically inane to even suggest we dont need to do any of those things.
But your probably not seeing this as you did say you had me on ignore.....Another example of a copout.

 

More dishonest Farsight like misinterpretations.
no one is saying that.
The accepted mainstream view is based on fact:
That fact is simply that time travel is not forbidden by the laws of physics
Your dishonesty in ignoring that fact is mind blowing.

 

Bingo!

 

Liar, liar, pants on fire!
check out brucep,s last post at post 664

 

After that last "matter of fact" factual" "straight down the line" "tell it as it is"post previous to this one, I have no more to say.

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I would just add that what was said about WH's, wormholes, and BH's, is the same case one must apply to time travel possibilities.
Another point re the Kerr-Newman type BH, a charged rotating BH, and also the plain old Kerr metric BH, is that regions called ergospheres are created from which escape is theoretically possible.
That seems to raise another possible method of time travel.

 

There should be a law restricting how much intellectual dishonesty members get to darken the doorstep of this forum with. What Farsight does is the WORST trolling possible. It must be ok with all those that continue to engage his purposely illiterate comments and those who allow it to continue without consequence.

 

No wait. Landau was right.

http://theinfosphere.org/Church_of_Trek

 

brucep, Trippy -I appreciate the effort you are making on my behalf as well as for whoever else cares to read your thoughtful post. Know that I am reading and considering well all that you have said. I will respond if and when I have something to say. Thank you.

 

Given that, why is this thread still in Physics & Math, instead of the Cesspool?

 

I've got a feeling Farsight wont be around for awhile.

Maybe someone will ponder a question in the meantime.

 

Yep. That's me.

No I'm not. It's just that as an IT guy I have a good training in analysis and logic, and there are professional physicists who have commented favourably about that.

The guy was talking patent pompous popscience nonsense because birds flew, men had flown in a balloon a hundred years previously, and there were already internal combustion engines around.

I live in Poole in the UK. And honestly, whilst Hawking is a media darling, he is not well thought of by physicists. Have a read of this physicsworld article:

"This morning there was lots of talk about science on BBC Radio 4′s Today programme – but I think it left many British scientists cringing under their duvets.
Stephen Hawking was on the show explaining why M-theory – an 11-dimensional structure that underlies and unifies various string theories – is our best bet for understanding the origin of the universe. Hawking explained that M-theory allows the existence of a “multiverse” of different universes, each with different values of the physical constants. We exist in our universe not by the grace of God, according to Hawking, but simply because the physics in this particular universe is just right for stars, planets and humans to form. There is just one tiny problem with all this – there is currently little experimental evidence to back up M-theory. In other words, a leading scientist is making a sweeping public statement on the existence of God based on his faith in an unsubstantiated theory."

 

Good stuff Landau. Sadly people do so love their woo. They lap it up, and they cling to it in the face of all the logic and evidence you show them.

More good stuff.

 

Yes, time dilation is real. But the crew travelled through space, not through time. They could achieve the same effect by spending four million years in a stasis box, which is a glorified refrigerator. They aren't time travelling, they are suffering less internal motion, that's all. It's like I said in the OP, you "travel" to the future by not moving at all whilst everything else does.

Landau has already said time dilation is not time travel.

A clock "clocks up" local motion inside the clock. When one clock is going slower than another, the motion is going slower, that's all. When you're time-dilated it's like you're living your life in slow motion. But you aren't time travelling.

 

No, I created this thread in order to challenge woo, and as a lead-in to another thread on the speed of light which is a lead-in to an explanation of how gravity works. I don't report people who disgree with me, I report people who are abusive and offensive and who seek to trash threads and spoil the forum.

That's not true. I make a case for the subject of discussion, with references, and the idea is that you offer a counter-argument to show where I'm wrong. If you can't, you yield graciously. When I've been banned it's typically because there's some "moderator" who thinks he's the expert and who can't bear to be shown to be wrong by a guy like me. If you'd like to refer to another forum I can show you my posts there. They will be civil, concerning physics. And other posts will probably demonstrate that the moderator gives free rein to abusive trolls who seek to trash the thread.

But the level of speculation varies. There's virtually no speculation concerning black holes: we know there's something very small and very massive in the centre of our galaxy. However there is no evidence whatsoever for white holes or wormholes, or for time travel.

The people who believe in things like time travel despite all the evidence of what clocks do and what time is, are the people behaving creationists.

 

Now I know you're a liar, and not just a self-deluded narcissist.