Some facts about guns in the US

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by James R, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    That does not answer the question. Do you not understand it?
    No. What most reduces the risk to the insurance company. Those are two different concepts, and especially in the area of personal safety for an individual they are often in conflict. Some of these conflicts - such as the airbag endangerment of short people who value their hearing and always wear seat belts - are serious. Gun owners do not want to be victimized in this manner, and who can blame them? When "public health" or "general safety" are involved, idiocy is common enough to beware automatically. And the confused, careless, slipshod "safety"arguments advanced by people whose opinion of firearm owners is colored by contempt and whose apparent agenda is the banning of private firearms ring every wary bell there is.
    It is an observation of mine, from my own life and the people among whom I live and work. Famous examples include the drug laws, not so famous but essentially unarguable examples include air bags in cars, arguable but essentially clear examples include helmet laws of various kinds, overstringent lifejacket and official beach laws, and so forth.
    Which leaves dozens of times, some of them familiar to most gun owners, in which the impositions did not promote the general welfare, or in which the improvement in the general welfare was slight while the impositions on the specific people were heavy, and so forth. One may be able to spot these minority exceptions by the spurious nature of the arguments justifying them, the presence of a visibly careless, irrational, ill informed agenda, or the scope and potential threat of the governmental intrusion involved.

    Unfortunately, the public debates and legislative efforts are not in the hands of these "most people".
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    It is OT, but then Limbaugh is always OT. His marriage record doesn't speak well for his expertise in the art of seduction.
    Actually, he reminds me of the Clown (demon) in the movie Spawn.
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    Crap.. Sorry, posted that in the wrong thread by accident.

    I'll be deleting it and moving it to the more appropriate thread.

    Apologies!
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    How's That School Safety Thing Working Out?

    About as you would expect. David Waldman noted yesterday the third accidental firearm discharge by an armed teacher so far this school year.

    The latest is a responsible gun owner and retired FBI agent who accidentally shot a filing cabinet, lodging the bullet in the next room. According to officials at the Technology Center of DuPage, the criminal justice instructor was not authorized to be carrying the firearm on school grounds. So far, the human damage in our schools has been minor, with gun owners responsibly only hurting themselves and inanimate objects. As Waldman notes:

    You will recall that last month saw an armed 6th grade teacher injure herself with porcelain shrapnel as she accidentally Second Amendmented the toilet out from beneath herself in the faculty restroom, and an Idaho State University professor Second Amendment himself in the foot during class.

    Six weeks of school (counting from the week of August 25th), and three teachers have already accidentally fired their handy little safety tools in school. Looking sharp, people. Looking sharp.

    It might be convenient metaphors and bathroom humor right now, but ... er ... ah ... yeah. Enjoy it.

    Sad thing is, it sounds about right on schedule.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Waldman, David. "Seriously, people. This armed teacher thing really might not work out." The Daily Kos. October 4, 2014. DailyKos.com. October 5, 2014. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...armed-teacher-thing-really-might-not-work-out
     
  8. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    1,784


    He’s funny, makes a few good points, but a gun has an equalizing effect. I don't want to give that up.
     
  9. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    23,198
    Yes very funny so I watched to the end. Thanks.
    But I came here hoping one of the "some facts" was the ratio of short barrel (can hide in your coat, etc.) guns to male adults. I guess it is about unity but don't know.
     
  10. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,479
    that's the problem. guns are objects of power. its why people do stupid shit with them. it makes them feel powerful. so great you don't want to give up your object of power because you like the way it makes you feel. but that it gives you warm fuzzies is not a good argument in favor of guns.
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    Most men in the US do not own a handgun at all, and as there's not much reason to own more than one snubnose (Saturday Night Special) what you are asking is if a whole lot of women - for whom the ability to fit the thing in a purse is a consideration - own them, thus raising the average number per male in the society.

    My guess is well short of unity, but as with most facts about guns it's not an easy number to find, at least not for me. I've seen many guns in possession of men, but outside of a sales display I've seen exactly one small caliber snubnose handgun in my life, shown to me by a guy who bought it as a protection against the immanent registration/confiscation of America's firearms by the incoming Muslim/Communist/Wright acolyte/Ayers co-conspiritor {i.e. black} President - gun sales to white men in certain parts of the US went through the roof in those weeks of panic, even worthless tsotchkes like the Chinese junk he was carrying around for a week or so until he calmed down. Better than a tattoo of a Gadsden flag, I suppose - and cheaper, by the look of it.

    They are too small, too quiet, too slow, too weak - unimpressive to gangbangers and mudtruckers alike. For actual killers, of course, the muscle of organized crime or the like, they are ideal - the next best thing to a silencer, viciously lethal without great risk of side damages, cheap and disposable without regret - but that's a very small number of men.
     
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,884
    What More Do We Expect?

    Via KOIN 6 television in Portland, Oregon:

    A man practicing his open carry right was robbed of the gun he was openly carrying.

    William Coleman III was robbed of his Walther-brand P22 just after 2:00 a.m. October 4 in Gresham by a young man who asked him for it — and flashed his own weapon as persuasion.

    Coleman, 21, was talking to his cousin in the 17200 block of NE Glisan St., after purchasing the handgun earlier that day, when a young man asked him for a cigarette, police said.

    The man then asked about the gun, pulled a gun from his own waistband and said “”I like your gun. Give it to me.”

    Coleman handed over the gun and the man fled on foot.

    Thanks, Mr. Coleman, for that brilliant performance. We appreciate the way you helped keep us all safe.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    News Staff. "Man practicing open carry law robbed of gun". KOIN 6. October 7, 2014. KOIN.com. October 22, 2014. http://koin.com/2014/10/07/man-practicing-open-carry-law-robbed-of-gun/
     
  13. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    Egad! Is gun safety still politically correct?
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    That's a 400 dollar weapon, of no use whatsoever except threatening other people at close range. http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=GM436466

    What he needs is two of them - one concealed. That way when the guy starts to leave with the one, he can pull the other and make the robber give it back along with robbery gun.

    Two or three robberies later, he'd be money ahead (street value of such weapons is about half retail).
     
  15. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,479
    so your solution to gun point robbery is more gun point robbery? no wonder you were comepletely ok with sculpter's willingness for criminal with guns, so are you.


    #responsiblegunownership # resposiblegunowners
     
  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Fair enough - I just never quite understood the point of open-carry, especially with a gun like that. That's the kind of weapon that should be concealed so it can be used if ever needed, instead of shown off.
     
  17. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    13,938
    I find it interesting that even YouTube thinks that video is pretty dumb... I mean, the suggestions it gives to "watch next" afterwards are:

    "I like your boobs marry me"
    "Dave Chappelle Describes His First Encounter with Kanye West"
    "The Ultimate Girls Fail Compilation 2012"
    and
    "Best Football Vines Compilation 2013"
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,884
    Marysville-Pilchuck High School: 6 wounded, shooter dead

    We have time to worry about the wounded. So far the only reported death in this story that is approximately an hour old is the shooter, by self-inflicted gunshot wound.

    The first question, of course, is why. Of course, that demands knowing who the late shooter was. We'll see about that, but, you know, it's enough to make me nostagic for the days when assholes just threw punches and insults.

    Update 1237 PST: Uncorroborated report of one victim dead; distraught student tells KOMO News, "I saw my friend killed right in front of me." Presently, law enforcement only acknowledges shooter dead.

    Update 1247 PST: Headlines and ledes (➦) are changing; one victim confirmed dead, details uncertain.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Kreamer, Matt. "Police: shooter dead after opening fire at Marysville-Pilchuck High School". The Seattle Times. October 24, 2014. SeattleTimes.com. October 24, 2014. http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2014/10/shooting-reported-at-marysville-pilchuck-high-school/
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
  20. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    13,938
    Goddammit... this country has gone completely insane...
     
  21. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    This really makes me want to get out hunting.
     
  22. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    I just battered and deep fried a deer heart cut into thin slices.
    Finally a good way to cook some really dense meat.
    Does anyone here prefer involuntary muscle to skeletal muscle?
     
  23. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,884
    When Hope Itself Becomes Perverse

    When we hear of a horrendous crime such as a mass shooting, there comes a point where one might start hoping something or another about the reason this happened. You know, random psychotic break, accidental and previously unrecognized industrial pollution poisoning. Anything.

    Because, well ... right. Because.

    Two students are dead after one of them opened fire Friday morning in the Marysville-Pilchuck High School cafeteria before turning the gun on himself, according to law-enforcement sources.

    Police said four other people were wounded in the 10:45 a.m. shooting.

    Austin Joyner, a student at the school, said on Twitter that he saw the shooter come into the cafeteria, walk over to a table, pull out a gun and shoot students who were sitting there.

    Other students identified the shooter as Jaylen Fryberg.

    Jarron Webb, 15, said the shooter was angry at a girl who would not date him, and that the girl was one of the people shot ....


    (Kreamer)

    Welcome to America. What the hell have we done to this place?

    Actually, you know, given that it's all secondhand chatter, maybe we can still get out of this with random industrial pollution.

    But come on, really?
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Kreamer, Matt. "2 dead, 4 wounded in shooting at Marysville-Pilchuck High". The Today File. October 24, 2014. Blogs.SeattleTimes.com. October 24, 2014. http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2014/10/shooting-reported-at-marysville-pilchuck-high-school/
     

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