Fluoride in water - can it damage the Thyroid

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Kittamaru, Oct 23, 2014.

  1. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    http://fluoridealert.org/issues/health/thyroid/

    Now, before you ream me for the source of the article... yes, I know - it's an anti-fluoride website. That's part of why I'm asking - does anyone with a bio-chem or bio-med background have the knowledge of how the body works with fluoride and how it absorbs it from various sources?

    What about brushing your teeth? Wouldn't that have a higher concentration of fluoride than fluoridated water?

    The article above was used as a source in an article I stumbled across on Facebook (yeah yeah, I know)

    http://themindunleashed.org/2014/02/9-shocking-dangers-fluoride-exposure.html

    I have to say... honestly, I'm not sure why putting fluoride in water supplies seems like such a good idea to begin with - its effect on tooth health would seem to be minimal, compared to even halfway decent dental hygiene...?
     
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  3. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I can comment on that, so will:

    The tips of my two incisor teeth are chalk white, as I was born in Littlerock Arkansas where the natural fluoride in the water in the suburb where my father/mother lived is high. I'm not sure how long I lived there, but at least a year so my growing bones took up fluoride and when my first to form teeth (top incisors) were developing the bone's fluoride over dosed them badly. The advantage of a lower dose was despite poor dental hygiene habits, I never had a cavity until I got "wisdom teeth." A bad side effect is that my earlier teeth are hard and thus brittle - several have needed repair of chipped corner - some I did not repair. Also teeth must grow some as some of the earlier molars have deep fissures in the midline of their sides. In my late teens I fell victim to a dentist who put tiny specks of mercury amalgam filling in these voids - I think he was paying for his new large boat.

    One main reason why that Fluoride was discovered to reduce carries was that some dental association published data on the number of dentist in US location per capita living there. It showed parts of Arkansas were way below average. So newly graduated dentist went there, opened their office and went bankrupt. Then the dental association did some studies to learn why. Those low dentist/ 1000 areas had high levels of Fluoride in their water.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2014
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  5. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    ok so all praise fluoride for it keeps our teeth clean, meanwhile killing our thyroid and kidneys.

    Hey I don't care if my iodine levels are all messed up and my kidneys are failing...as long as my teeth are shining clean. Right?

    http://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/fluoride
     
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  7. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe I'm an exception. My hometown started fluoridating water about the time I was born, 60 years ago. I have never had a cavity, my kidneys and thyroid are just fine. (I know because I just went to my doctor for my yearly, and they did extensive blood work.)
     
  8. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Which is why I'm asking - are its benefits worth it? Are there any benefits if the person in question already has proper dental hygiene?
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Not really. Its effects on tooth health in children, and through them the lifelong overall wellbeing of adults, are significant.

    This is an example of a perceptual problem that plagues human governance in general: when a problem is well handled by some innovation that needs upkeep, the cost of that upkeep will eventually come to seem unnecessary - since there is no visible problem. When the neighbor kids are not dying from whooping cough, the expense and risks of the vaccination don't look worthwhile. When debilitating toothaches, abcesses, and mouths featuring missing and rotten teeth, are not one's common experience, the means by which that formerly common regional affliction has been prevented do not look cost effective.
     
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  10. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    iceaura - that's sort of my question - isn't there already plenty of fluoride in toothpaste and dental treatments? Also, isn't that why there is fluoride free toothpaste and mouthwash for kids (because a small dose can be harmful to them if swallowed?)
     
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  11. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    All things in moderation, except advertising.
     
  12. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    *nods* Indeed - at what level does Fluoride stop being beneficial, and at what level does it become harmful?

    Case in point - if a 7 year old brushes his teeth with fluoridated toothpaste, uses a fluoride mouthwash, and drinks 8 8oz glasses of fluoride-added water a day... is he getting too much?
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    So what percentage of kids in low flouride water areas get dental treatments and brush their teeth every day with toothpaste, let alone swallow enough of the toothpaste to get dietary flouride? Or drink 8 glasses of flouridated water a day?

    I wouldn't give a child flouride mouthwash, or any other mouthwash actually, and I wouldn't have them using flouride toothpaste if they were drinking flouridated water and swallowing any toothpaste they did use, but this is a minority of children and they would still be well under the natural flouride levels in many areas - which don't seem to do harm.

    It's a concern, sure, but excessive flouride in mouthwashes and stuff like that is pretty easy to avoid and kind of expensive to provide, meanwhile there are all these kids who live in low-flouride regions who are getting almost all their dietary flouride from tap water - and have been for generations. And they need it. Like iodized salt.
     
  14. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    That's why I'm asking

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    I'm also curious... what is the amount of fluoride added to city water compared to what exists in normal well-water?

    EDIT - TO be clear - I'm not saying adding Fluoride is bad - I'm just curious about it because I don't know much...and when I try to research on the internet, I get a lot of hard-line opinions (it's ebil or it's super good, very little in between)
     
  15. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    Don't be afraid to condemn Fluoride. I know how much intimidation those who oppose fluoride in water or fluoride in toothpaste people get.

    Here is a Harvard study linking lower children IQ to fluoride in water: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/08/07/effects-of-fluoride-to-children.aspx

     
  16. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    The original paper is here:
    https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/8114790/galletti-joyet-1958-fluoride-action-network

    The abstract says that if people have hyper-thyroidism, then doses of fluoride not much different to that added to tap water,
    will have a beneficial effect, provided that the amount of iodide in the diet is low.

    If there isn't enough iodine in the diet, it wouldn't surprise me if the body tried to use fluorine. That seems to be the conclusion of this old paper.
    Deficiency in iodine is still a problem worldwide.
    And a bigger problem than tooth decay.
    I wonder why they don't add some iodine to the water as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2014
  17. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1638306/

     
  18. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    That isn't an outright condemnation of the possibility of adding iodide to water.
    Excess intake of fluorine and chlorine are also potentially harmful.
    Water is local.
    Iodide could be added only in areas where there is a natural deficiency.
    If you are deficient in Iodine, both Chlorine and Fluorine might well be acting physiologically.
    Why not add the third halogen? Belt and Braces.
     
  19. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    My son is a water operator, I'll ask him what this area's water is like and what they add. He isn't a distribution operator, but he'll know more than I do.

    Or at worst, he can ask the State lab guys next time they're out for samples.
     
  20. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    That would be exceptional Dr_Toad! Thank you!
     
  21. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    It is odd that they add fluoride.
    To protect teeth.
    Why are they so interested in people's teeth?
    It's the most replaceable body part.
    If they rot you can get false ones.

    Iodine deficiency would seem to me to be far more important than adding fluoride for teeth.

    This has been posted on sf many times. The Goitre Belt.

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  22. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    The problem is not fluoride, it is lack of iodine.
    It used to be added as iodide to salt in the UK, and they are considering putting it back.
    You can still buy it as iodised salt.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13034582
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    That depends on where you live. The flouride in the US is added to bring it up to certain level - some places add none, having naturally flouridated water.

    Those are two problems.
     

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