How many times do republicans need to be proven wrong before they lose all credibilit

Top 5 Best Presidents of All Time (not a static list, I will adjust with more study)

5 James Madison (not real comfortable with this)
4 JFK
3 Ronald Reagan
2Thomas Jefferson
1 George Washington

Top 5 Worst Presidents of All Time (ditto prefatory statement from above)

5 George W. Bush
4 FDR
3 Woodrow Wilson
2 Abraham Lincoln (I know many repubs would occupy this spot with Carter, but no)
1 Barack Obama (not even close)

And no republicans are not always wrong, not any more than democrats are always right. The real truth both are socialists, statists, fascists, whatever. Both are anything but constitutional politicians and have effectly rendered it obsolete. There is no more constitution. There is nothing but power hungry politicians who, yes, do nothing but implement unjust legislation and must be followed at the tip of the spear. The most onerous laws have been put forth by democrats (Wilson and Obama). Repubs just love to use them and cry all the time how they can run these assisnine laws better: really!!

 

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I don't know if I'd choose the same set, but many of your choices I agree with. I'm surprised Nixon didn't make the cut.

I damn sure agree with your last paragraph.

 

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LOL, a libertarian I presume. Just because your ideology conflicts with the law, it doesn't make the laws assisnine. Democrats have put forth laws that benefit nation as opposed to republican who use the law to benefit the few at the expense of the many. Democratic administrations have been more prosperous and more fiscally prudent than republican administrations. That is a simple matter of historical record. Democrats believe in science, republicans, not so much. And if you are a libertarian, then your fiscal and economic views are not rooted in science.

Unfortunately, today republican ideology is driven by the theatrics of the republican entertainment industry rather than fact and reason. Republicans have been wrong on just about everything for more than 2 decades. Where are the death panels? Where are the many economic appocolypses they have predicted Obama would bring?

 

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While I have no idea how Obama thinks, if I were him I would be quite proud to occupy a slot next to Abraham Lincoln.

And yet the Supreme Court keeps wielding the Constitution to dash the best-laid plans of both Democrats and Republicans.

 

Well Ghostwriter's rankings, with the exception of W, are at odds with those of presidential historians. Obama has done what no president before him had been able to do, modernize the American healthcare system. And his economic policies prevented an economic Armageddon and took an economy which was rapidly shrinking into one that has consistently grown year after year.

 

Well, given that he just extended the same stimulus and bank support policies that GWB started, I don't think he can take too much credit for it. Our economy operates in cycles; no president can prevent that from happening. (Other than bankrupting the country, which we are currently in danger of.)

Agreed that the ACA was a good try at improving health care coverage; the jury is still out on how well it will work long term.

 

Obama continued the bank bailouts which originated with the W administration. But the initial stimulus and subsequent stimulus and the auto industry bailouts were all Obama's. And republicans vehemently opposed all of them.

 

Many CONSERVATIVES not Republicans opposed TARP!! There is a huge difference between your mainstream Republicans, those in Washington and those not in Washington. Furthermore, by Washington I do not necessarily restrict it to DC; I also mean many state capitols as well.

Your statement about the constitution is invalid, because the justices have decided that "constitutional law" is whatever they claim it to be. In short, they write there opinions on whether or not a law is constitutional not whether or not it actually is constitutional. There is a difference and once that a great many lefties fail to understand.

But there is one thing you are right, and there are very few of them, that is Republicans did not oppose Bush's overreach. Yet somehow those buffoons could find the courage to oppose Obams's overreach; though even that is limited. The entire lot of them should be impeached from the top down. Yet, the commies have won. The people can vote every single one of them out of office and yet they refuse. Why because they want the goodies, and freebies. I do not anticipate that this entire downturn of the country will end soon. Both parties keep trotting out losers who seemingly fight over themselves give out everything they can. They have plenty of help, anyone outside of the 2 party system will be flogged in the press and by those within the system. It is broke and has overreached for decades on end without anyone truly stopping them.

I would venture to guess that you could not even understand why my top 5 worst are who they are? Nor do I expect you to answer the question.

 

Rebut:

Sentence 1. I should hope so since many of them are marxist historians to begin with.

Sentence 2 This is not an accomplishment except to those who love power and tyranny. In fact, it flies straight in the face of the constitution, the actual one not the fictitional one you ascribe to. The fact is as long as regulation is involved HC costs will always be high by a factor of 10.

Sentence 3 Yet to be seen, but almost assuredly the economy would have righted itself without Bush and Obama's interference. Please stop with the out and out lie that the economy is recovering. Any recovery is tantamount to saying 3rd and 19 is better than 3rd and 19 and a half. No matter how much defecation is covered by roses. It is still defecation

 

Yes some Republicans did oppose TARP. Initially TARP failed in congress and it sent stock markets around the globe into a tumble. You can quibble what you call a conservative and what you call a Republican. But the Republican Party likes to brand itself as the conservative party. And as far as “mainstream”, even so called mainstream republicans are very extreme. What passes for conservatism is far from conservative. It is radical in the extreme. Those few republicans who voted for TARP were subsequently purged from the party. Those few Republicans paid dearly for their patriotism.

If by conservatism you mean minimizing risk, using proven policies and tactics, and maximizing return, that doesn’t by any stretch define the current American conservative movement. The current American conservative movement is defined by ridged adherence to doctrine, regardless of science and regardless of rational thought and rule with theatrics and demagoguery. A wise driver varies the speed of his vehicle depending on circumstances and conditions. Drivers of the Republican machine only have one speed and one solution for all circumstances and all conditions.

I think you are a little confused; I made no reference to the Constitution in my posts. Let me remind you, the Constitution empowers the Supreme Court. You may not like their rulings. I certainly don’t. But that doesn’t change the fact that their powers are derived from the US Constitution.

Unfortunately for you, I am correct and that is why you cannot refute anything I wrote. Additionally, this isn’t about overreach, it is about doing what is right for most Americans. The one thing we can agree on is that we are not well served by our elected representatives. And we as voters have to accept our culpability. Our election system must change and our elected representatives must not have interests which conflict with those who elected them and for which they are supposed to serve. We need better informed voters to elect better and more responsible representatives, and to do that we need to take the special interest money out of our politics and restore The Fairness Doctrine.

You can venture what you wish, but it really isn’t relevant.

 

I know this comes as a surprise to you, but just because someone does not subscribe to your ideology and ridged beliefs, it doesn’t make them a Marxist. Mao didn’t like intellectuals either.

I know this too is difficult for you, but it is true. Obamacare doesn’t fly in the face of the Constitution. And you know as well as I, Obamacare has been ruled constitutional by the US court system. And the fact is, the US healthcare system before Obamacare was the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It cost more and produced less healthcare services than any other healthcare system in the world. Obamacare mimics other successful healthcare systems that have reduced costs and improved healthcare. It builds on existing and proven healthcare models.

Decades down the road, perhaps the economy would have eventually recovered, and after much civil unrest and perhaps a new government and much suffering. We saw what The Great Depression did for Western Europe and for The United States. It gave rise to Nazi Germany. And if you think I am lying about the Obama economic recovery, prove it. I will be waiting. I think I will be waiting for a very long time.

The fact is when Obama assumed office; the nation was losing nearly a million jobs a month and more with each passing month. The economy was shrinking at an ever growing rate – shrinking at an annualized rate of 10%. . The nation’s banks were on the verge of collapse. Deficits were soaring. All of that has been reversed. All of that changed with the auto industry bailouts and the subsequent stimulus packages passed by a democratic congress and signed into law by President Obama. As I said before your libertarian ideology is just not consistent with centuries of history and science. It makes for good demagoguery for the simple minded. But it just isn’t grounded in empirical evidence and reason.

 

The Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 was signed by GWB. 169 Republican representatives voted for it; only 25 opposed it.

You were saying?

 

Cool, but that isn't the act being referenced. Bush II had a number of stimulus acts during his tenure as POTUS, all with marginal impact. The Stimulus Act of 2008 preceeded the economic crisis of 2008 by 9 months. Obama's first stimulus package was passed on February 17, 2009.

 

You said that the initial stimulus was Bush's and that republicans opposed it. In fact republicans voted it into law and GWB signed it.

Look, I generally agree with your underlying point. But you have this Obama-worship thing going along with a hatred for all things republican, and because of that it's hard to take you seriously. The above is a good example; in general you can be relied upon to post pro-democrat and anti-republican views. If the facts agree with such an interpretation, your posts are often accurate; if the facts do not agree with that particular political tint, then you fabricate material.

 

I haven't looked into who voted for which but in the media, Republicans praised Bush's stimulus & condemned Obama's.

 

I think you are confusing TARP with stimulus. TARP was a Bush II law, also known as the bank bailout. Additionally, I worship no one. Facts are facts and I fabricate nothing. Please feel free to provide proofs if you think differently. But do your homework first. Facts are not partisan.

If you choose to ignore the facts so be it.

 

True, but Bush's stimulus packages were mostly special interest giveaways (e.g. tax cuts for the wealthy) with limited economic value. And unfortunately the Republican Party has evolved to the point where it is anti-democrat even when it damages the nation. Before Fox News and conservative/republican entertainment it was not that way. There was a time when republicans could work with a democratic POTUS and not impeach him. Now impeachment by a republican congress is becoming a rite of passage.

 

No, TARP and the The Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 were separate bills.

Perhaps not - but it sure comes across that way in your posting. I have never seen you criticize Obama, nor have I ever seen you laud an accomplishment by a republican.

Facts are indeed facts - and in this case, the initial stimulus bill came from republicans and was signed by GWB.

 

ok internet lets try this again. A name doesn't inherently confer the definition upon it. hence calling something stimlus doesn't make it one, having socialist in ones name doesn't make it a socialist orginization, and koalas aren't actually bears.

 

As I told you before, the Bush II stimulus occurred 9 months before the crisis. It is not in any way related to or relevent to the discussion. The first response to the crisis was TARP. THE SECOND was Obama's stimulus. By the way, democrats controlled both houses of congress in 2008. So the stimulus act of 2008 originated and was passed by a democratic congress. Obama's stimulus which you want to credit republicans for was passed without a single republican vote.