Should I be a scientist? If you did post-grad study I would appreciate your input…

“This is meaning-of-life stuff!” and it is seriously plaguing me right now...

Work takes up a lot of time and energy and I want mine to be meaningful (to me at least).
I’m in my mid-20s but have always been obsessed with questions of how everything works at a fundamental level and how my mind works (e.g. when I was little I would wonder if I was the only self-aware/conscious person and if souls exist – if so, what are they?). In 5 years I could be anywhere, doing anything…
To me, the most important things I could possibly discover/know in my lifetime are how consciousness works (how I’m experiencing each moment) and a theory of everything (if even possible). Of course, to have a perfect model of these things is probably unrealistic and too ambitious but even getting much closer and eliminating what they AREN’T could be very satisfying and important in itself. Technology and science related to enabling people to live longer and quality lives is also up there, but I probably only think it’s so important because living longer would see better answers to these questions.

Thing is, there seem to already be a lot of people pursuing work in these areas and even more who want the answers so do I really need to make it my life purpose when I can just read their publications and books along the way? What if I’m not so fascinated by this stuff in 15 years? It’s probably taking a leap of faith believing these questions can even really be satisfactorily addressed.


Philip Greenspun wrote a pretty damning article about the career of a scientist http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science and something like software development which I also like would presumably have much better career stability and money. His main points are the career instability, you will be tied to doing research you get funding for (not what you want), very long hours. I guess I could do something science-related without being an actual scientist..

I’ve looked seriously into religion and whether God could exist but came to the conclusion they were all man-made and not fundamentally true.


Anyway any help would be much appreciated, I’m sure I’m not alone with this dilemma…

 

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science is a passion. if you're looking for money, you want technology.

materials science as a background will take you far. companies in industry always need engineers with good materials-science skills. it's also fun and creative. but it doesn't satisfy the passion for discovery that biological sciences pose.

 

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Do you want to develope a "Theory of Everything"?

 

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Rambo, my son worked for various friends, Contractors in the Home Building Trades, while earning his PHD in Chemical Engineering.

His first "career" employment lasted about 1 1/2 years, and was, as he now refers to it : "Soul Draining"!

Ten years later, he is a Contractor, and, as a "hobby", has built himself a nice little lab to study the "science" that he chooses to.

He tells me, and it seems to make sense, that : You can study anything; science, philosophy even "wisdom" - but that is not how you "get it". You "get it", by "living it", and he is in no big hurry for it to be "completely gotten"!


So anyway, Rambo, “This is meaning-of-life stuff!” that "is seriously plaguing" you "right now...", can and will only be explained, and the "plague" eradicated, by getting on with "Life"!
Stopping, stalling or floundering - whether by this "Plague of Vague" or even simple indecision - only "kicks the can" of enjoying Life "further down the road"!

just my $174.29 ($00.02 - adjusted for inflation)

 

Well, I'm not in my twenties, nor have I done any post graduate stuff of any kind...and like Norma Jean the first three decades of my life were lived at a fast and furious pace. But then a good woman decided to make a more productive man out of me.
I too have always wondered [even in those first three decades] not so much about personal consciousness or if the soul exists or not, for I believe that is beyond any human reach, one way or the other.
A great man once said [and not too long ago] that "astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. "
That to varying lessening degrees probably applies to all the sciences, but with Astronomy/Cosmology it certainly hits its peak.
All the other sciences, and any deep meaningful personal questions about souls etc and the meaning of life, can be all encapsulated in the wonders of the never ending, near infinite Universe around us.

 

Well, I am in the last year of my (physics) PhD, and yeah I have to agree that these parts of science suck total balls. I am very grateful for the time I have had to study and think about deep and beautiful things that most people never get the chance to, but since I am now trying to get a postdoc job I am feeling the pain of sucky career prospects, and the long hours and practically non-existent social life I have ended up with to get this far. It is different in different areas of science of course, but broadly speaking I think the number of positions around is few and the competition very strong. Even if things go well, postdoc jobs only last a couple of years I will be doing it all again, and then again, for the better part of the next decade, if I am successful! And then in the end, the chances of landing a permanent academic position are slim. I have seen my department hire several new faculty over the last few years, and their resumes are so astoundingly good that it is hard to imagine ever making it to their position. All in all, it is pretty tempting to bail on academia and try to get a job somewhere in industry.

But all that said, I do not feel "finished". I do actually care about the things I am researching, I find it hard to value much else in fact, and it is not easy to let go of them and take a different path. So I will probably let the job market decide for me; if people want to pay me to keep at this game, I will probably do it. If not, I will take a long vacation, and re-think my life...

My final advice: it is legitimate to do a PhD just for the love of it, I think. But don't do it lightly; it takes a good few of your best years and you will never get them back. I started my undergraduate degree nearly ten years ago, and while I have been studying I have seen a lot of friends buy houses and cars, get married, have children. These things are not easy to do on a grad school stipend. You might be giving up more than you realise.

tl,dr; You have to be *really* good to go all the way in science. At whatever you do, anyway, not necessarily in general

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P.S. Just read the Philip Greenspun article: it is heartbreakingly accurate.

 

RE: OP

I'm living your dream

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Yes it's worth it. Jesus, could you imagine wasting away in a dead end job somewhere doing mind-numbingly boring bullshit with this one and only life? I've travelled and lived in many different countries from the West to the East - I paid my own way, worked hard, and partied hard; so, you don't have to 'give up' doing that sort of thing. You're not 'missing out' on THAT. What you will be missing out on are other things - like settling down and starting a family in your 20s (but try not missing out on having a family altogether - I do see that happen a lot this line of work, which I find somewhat sad). Married and settled into a comfy permanent job isn't likely to happen - ever. You'll be too busy working to worry about 'relationships"

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Plan on putting in 60-80 hours a week for years on end - if not, if that's too much of an ask, then don't decide to go into the sciences as a career. There IS someone out there who WILL put in that much time AND be brilliant as well and lucky. Is every week that heavy? No, but it's not uncommon to have 8 months blow by and you haven't had a single day off. You will work during your weekends. You will work during your holidays. You will work work work. There is no 'me time' [lol]. So, you won't be 'coming home from work'. Does the load drop off? Nope. Your life IS your work. There IS NO weekend off. You will life, eat, shit and die dreaming about science (or be frozen, in that case they like to say 'stasis' not 'death' - but make no mistake, you'll die dreaming of that next experiment, paper, grant.... frozen or otherwise)

I have a new sucker errr.... "graduate student" starting for me in a couple of weeks. She's worked in my lab for a year and knows the drill. I work hard. She works hard. We produce data and we publish. Pretty straightforward. She's very excited to get back into the lab. One year in the mind-numbingly boring cog-based workforce was more than enough for her thank you.

Oh, and did I mention there's no job security? Well, not much anyway. About 23% of Academics have tenure. Most do not and never will. Even with a permanent job, it's not 'really' permanent. That doesn't actually exist any longer. If you go into academia, you may want to set aside an additional 20-40 more hours for lecture and service

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Those who go into industry face a lot of competition and work their arses off as well. But, if you're boring enough to get a government job, sure, you'll make a lot of money and you won't do too much - so there is that option, although we're all hoping more of those jobs are eliminated by the free-market.


If you do decide to do a PhD, keep your mind open - I'm thinking all sorts of 'jobs' will require additional qualification. Also, career wise, get on that day-dot. No one is going to hand you a career - if anything they'll be stabbing you in the back and climbing up and over your dying carcass. Think outside the box. Make a LOT of good connections. You help them, they help you.

 

I think you should pursue science (or philosophy), because you never know if it is you that makes the breakthrough you want to read about

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don't miss the opportunity!

 

I'd like to support the sentiment, but its pretty risky. That doesn't happen without dedicating your life to the cause, and mostly it doesn't happen anyway. Our civilisation does not appreciate science enough to provide much support for this kind of thinking. It is much cheaper to pump research out using armies of PhD students and postdocs, and then toss their burned-out brains aside, than it is to support so many people in a lifelong dedication to science.

 

Great point. The Government has taken over control of funding for basic sciences - it's little wonder it's turned into a bunch of fiefdoms with lab leaders more like Lords and Ladies. Without an organic free market there to support the graduating scientists, they are wrung of their potential and left to die. I mean, it's PhD students and Post-docs that MAKE scientific progress, not the Professors. Hell, there's so much inane bureaucracy you'd be lucky to escape a day without carpel tunnel.

I once had a discussion with another scientists about how I personally care about my PhD students future career - he looked at me like I was an idiot. Of course, he's much more successful than I am. This goes without saying.

 

When has the government ever not been in control of this? Or do you mean that universities used to have more control rather than federal funding committees who control every single little grant?

My advisor shares your sentiment.

Yeah I guess that is how the "market forces" work in this environment. Though my advisor is very supportive, and I have my current attitude nonetheless because he has no great power to help my career aside from writing a nice reference letter. Professors are not really in a position to do much to change things since they can't create new permanent faculty positions out of thin air; you can only affect how nice of a time people have while they work in your lab.

 

By the sound of it he is already dedicating his life to the cause and of course it is a risk but if he is as dedicated as it sounds then he will probably think it's worth it. Not everyone has that dedication and perception that it would be meaningful to his life, which tells me that he should pursue it. Perhaps, in the end he might not get to be the one making the great breakthrough, but I'm sure he will have learned things along the way, and that in itself is meaningful and satisfying.

 

I find the Greenspun article shallow beyond belief. It seems to measure the value of a career choice SOLELY in $$$$$$. How crass!

Any idiot with eyes to see can recognise that there are many , many professions or callings in this world that people choose for LOVE rather than for money. A career choice to study academic science is one you make for love. This is blindingly obvious. Just as - to take one other example - any classical musician does. Think of the talent of any orchestral violinist - and how badly it is paid. Yet these people live for their music and many of them are very fulfilled human beings.

I'd have more time for an article that dealt with the issue of whether or not one finds fulfilment in an academic science career. Many do, but I know from my limited experience of it that it is not for everyone. However I do think a degree in one of the hard sciences is a fantastic way to make the issues of how things work at a fundamental level something you can access and appreciate, even if you do not do the research work yourself. I followed a career in industry, but my chemistry degree has enabled me to follow with great interest, developments in physics, astronomy, and geology, as well as in my own discipline. Without that training, it would have been beyond me and my life would have been poorer. have no regrets about my choice of degree.

 

Yes it is true I think that you can only do science if you really love it. But I think the big difference here are the career options. If you did a music degree then to be honest none of your career prospects are awesome pay wise. Getting a job as an orchestral violinist is probably one of the best you can hope for. People who did science degrees, and are also good enough that they would make it through grad school, have more options.

You are right that fulfilment is of course important, but the Greenspun article was not talking just about dollars. It was talking about actually having a job a few years down the road. The point is that it is really quite hard to STAY in science forever no matter how much you love it, and career-wise you are better off getting out of academia sooner rather than later.

 

Rambo
do what you LOVE,,thats the only way to be happy,..money dont mean shyt if youre doing boring job,
there will always be financial support for sciences if not from Goverment then from private
philantrophists...

http://youtu.be/0NbBjNiw4tk