1 in 25 Americans is a monster

Religious morals came from and are based on secular social morals that - as Frag said - flow from our species origins.

No gods, no spirits, no masters. You live until you die, then it is 'fade to black' and - like an old fashioned printer ribbon - "once, then done". It won't hurt at the end and you will not be aware that you are then dead because you will be "dead".

 

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Not sure why, but I find the idea of this far more comforting (perhaps because it's realistic) than any notion I've ever had regarding an "after life."

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Makes sense to me. Many religious folks will suggest however that such an "internalization" is still "owed" to a Divine Creator.

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It occurs to me an intelligent and curious sociopath might put more stock in religion, because that may really be their only way of learning right from wrong in other people's eyes - and failure to distinguish right from wrong in other people's eyes has consequences.

I'm reminded of BF Skinner's account of how he came to research in behavioral psychology: he was trying to become a novelist, and a professor he respected told him his writing showed a lack of insight into people's motives and thought. So he enrolled in an introductory psychology class. He might well have turned to a religion, in the days before science, and I wouldn't be surprised if many in his position have.

I don't doubt that one in twenty five Americans is sociopathic - there was at least one in every school class of my childhood, I run into them at work, that seems like a reasonable estimate.

 

I don't think that heaven is right here on earth for most of the people. There are new problems that in the old times people would not have.

 

And as has been pointed out to you in some of those other threads, that isn't accurate.

Human life has been very hard at times and for many people in the past, but it has also been very good and enjoyable for many people in the past - and the present circumstances don't come up roses in all comparisons. Choosing the circumstances of Medieval and early Industrial Revolution Europe for one's benchmark seems to mislead people - the supposition that the human past is a long drag through that misery everywhere and always is simply wrong.

Working hours were lengthened, not shortened, by the Industrial Revolution - only with hard fighting and great political effort have we managed to beat back the encroachment of wage labor on the hours of the day, and partly return our lives to the social networking and series of projects etc that was taken for granted in the past.

And most people do not work sitting down, in any sense of taking their ease - although with the rise of the sweatshop that may be technically accurate (or may not be - anyone have a count?), the implications are not there.

The most interesting and indicative hard data I know of for measuring human prosperity and enjoyability of life is median height, perhaps coupled with tooth decay or other skeletal indications - as a summary stat it incorporates disease and diet, excessive work and the vicissitudes of childhood. By that measure we have only very recently achieved a quality of life equivalent to the Cro-Magnon tribe of pre-agricultural Europe, and still have a ways to go to match the Northern Cheyenne tribe of American reds from about 1500 until the early 1800s.

Also by this kind of approach, we get an idea of why so few humans are sociopaths - a 1/25 ratio indicates some kind of selection pressure against the trait, at least in the past. A look at the past tends to indicate that most humans for most of human history spent far more time than we do in pleasurable social activities with people they depended on and were accountable to - a lack of empathy would fit a person to some specialized roles in such a world, maybe, but would in general be a serious handicap.

 

I appear to be wrong about the relation to Lizzie Borden. But I found the guy's name. James Fallon. He calls himself a "pro-social psychopath". His personality seems to indicate that while people with the organic aspect of psychopathy may still develop morality the person still tends to be different.

He has some insightful videos on youtube.

 

To answer the thread, sadly, there are a lot of monsters in America. And they are good at hiding.

 

I do not. I often kill a kitten just before breakfast, just to give the day a good start. Sometimes that is all I need for the day, but I always seek to bring more disgrace, misery, despair and suffering to the world, just for fun.

I also don't have conscience phenomenally, I'm a philosophical zombie, but that's a whole different topic.

 

I don't really know much about it, but I think I've read that people were much more indifferent towards children at those times, or for a good portion of history. It was just a fact of life that they often died. Sad, but to be expected. The higher degree of affection for their own children that people have today may itself be partly a product of the technological conditions to reduce infant mortality.

Not only that, but some cultural changes alone. I've read also once that early Christianity had a role in humanizing children and women. I guess I even read it from some atheist source so it's less suspicious of just self-aggrandizement.

 

That is not true - I mean, not whether you've read that, you may well have, but whether the claim is correct.

Neither is the stat on infant mortality, btw. In plague years, maybe, but the population of Europe was increasing during all non-plague years, and a steady infant mortality rate of 80% is a declining population.

People with experience in other cultures have the opposite take - to more "primitive" people modern Western Europeans seem remarkably indifferent towards children, perhaps because there is little penalty for lack of vigilance and continual attention.

Early Christianity established choirs of castratos - young boys castrated to keep their voices from changing, so they could sing beautifully during worship in the cathedrals. It was also the Christian monarchies and high status individuals of Europe that established the custom of having their children boarded out and raised by peasants or lower status minions until they were old enough to behave themselves and be schooled formally. When the Christian London tribes conquered the more primitive and pagan Picts of Scotland, one of their impositions was to change the existing system of female inheritance and equal child status to the Christian one of female subjugation and oldest male inheritance. And so forth.

 

I am tentative to use the term “monster” in describing a sociopath, for me looking at the world and the havoc we wreck upon it and to our selves simply reaffirms my long held convictions that we humans are the true monsters in our own light. Each one of us has the capacity to perform heinous and harmonious acts towards each other. A “monster” is only created when the masses vilify or label them so to be the syndicated point of their contempt and hatred...The irony being that deep down inside those who throw their stones at the monster, perhaps like a tiny voice of reason tries to let us know a truth we all know: That if pushed to our absolute mental limits, to the edge of our sanity we would strike back and be turned on and called “monster”. Villains or monsters are just as human as you and me, they scream, agonize and suffer just as loudly, the only difference being is that no one can hear them. This thread simply reminds me of quote that I always remember when I hear someone being called a “monster”

“The only way to truly hurt a man is to take away everything that he valued and degrade it and remind him of it every day of his life. But in doing this you also create a monster and you will regret ever harming that man because he will become your greatest horror”-Anonymous

In that scenario the true “monster” is the person who created the “monster”

Tell me, what is the first word that comes to mind when you think of Adam Lanza? Is it Butcher, Sociopath....Monster?