IRS employees may be forced to enroll in Obamacare - and they're pissed.

Yes, I do know the law.

1) I was making the moral argument you cannot sell a child into slavery. You could sell yourself - oh, but I see you already have an owner, it says so right here on your Nanny State Citizenship ID card Identifying you belong to *insert your State owner here*. The labor of you and your children (should you have any) were Bonded and sold to China in 30-Yr U.S. Treasury Bonds by the State which owns you and your labor. This is, ironically, Slavery. You will spend the rest of your life paying those Bonds back.

2) There is no written agreement that says you cannot sell your child into Slavery, it's an unwritten agreement.

3) The mall doesn't need the Nanny State Security as it has it's own Private Security who can happily show you to the door and bar your entry.


As for your illusion the State gives two shits about you and your life, well, if that helps you get by in the New Economy - go on and believe it. Pull the Magic Lever LEFT or RIGHT - whatever makes you happy. But, the fact is, there's nothing you, I or the weasel politicians we elect are going to do to change the fact some other long-dead weasel politicians sold Bonds on our labour decades ago and we'll spend the rest of our lives working much longer and more productively with less services and less prosperity just to pay the interest to the TBTF Banks who hold those bonds. At least until the State itself goes bust like Detroit. Untill then, when you see and hear of those CEOs living the good life, enjoying all the finer things in life you'll only see on TV - just know you're the one paying for their lunch. And don't you worry - you will pay.

 

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A tax on food was your example of a "voluntary tax". I was just making fun of it.

And there were governments in England before the Romans, to build them.

So the quality of the roads and the contributions of the government track exactly. Big sophisticated government, possibly big sophisticated road system - not otherwise.

 

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Moral arguments are worth the paper they are printed on. A book that many Americans use for moral guidance - the Bible - gives instructions on how to sell your daughter into slavery. Fortunately we have evil Big Brother nanny state laws that prevents people without morals from selling their children into slavery - thus accomplishing what unsupported morality cannot.

I don't have one of those. Could I borrow yours?

No, it's actually written, which is why it's almost never a problem. Let me know if you would like the relevant sections of the Constitution and Federal law.

Ten seconds of Google searching gets you:
================
County Police Respond to Mall Incident
John Wilfong , March 07, 2011 at 10:14 PM

Cruisers parked at several entrances as police respond to reports of an armed robbery at Westfield Annapolis mall.

Anne Arundel County Police responded to Westfield Annapolis mall at just before 4 p.m. Monday afternoon for reports of an armed robbery in the mall.
======================

You were saying?

I don't think they give even one shit. My life is mine to do with as I see fit, and they can keep their opinions about it to themselves. I do pay taxes and thus expect services like roads, police patrols, a justice system etc. Just as I pay for health insurance and expect healthcare in return.

What finer things in life do I want from the world of TV that are denied me? (this should be good)

 

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1) The Bible is not based on Ethics. It's a superstition. Ethics is juxtapose to superstition.

2) The Nanny State bought and sold human chattel as "Slaves".

3) The Nanny State will put you in a cage if you dare to smoke a weed that commonly grows around the countryside. The Nanny State you love so much puts more people in prison per capita than ANY OTHER NATION. More than China. More than the USSR even.

4) The Nanny State, who cares for you so much, is as we speak, selling 30 year Bonds on children's future labor. They will pay that back or their Nanny will put them in a cage.


But, don't worry, we're going to get much much more Nanny State. A lot more. See how the State bailed out the top 1% and created TBTF banks to ensure the 1% legally can not lose their money so long as there IS a State. Oh, it's someone's Nanny - and that someone is not you.



It's sad to think you see so little in the people around you that you believe people would actually 'sell their children in slavery' if not for the threat of the State. This is typical of a Progressive. It's really a hatred of society. Kind of sociopathic if you stop and think about it. I'm going to 'help' society by threatening to put them in a rape-cage I keep in my basement if they aren't "Good Citizens" and "pay their fair share". It's like having two options: Asking a woman out on a date, or kidnapping her. Voluntarism or Force. The State, Nanny or otherwise, is the option of resorting to force. It's everything Civilization is not.

 

Out here in the real world that is fairly common - a matter of observation, not "belief".

 

Americans do not have a history of knowingly selling their own children into outright slavery. Now, voting for a Progressive who promises them sum-tin sum-tin MMmm Hmmm.... We got your "Free" Obamay-Phone or "Free" OblaaahmaCare, then sure - they'll sell those little F*ckers off in a heartbeat. 30 Year Bonds anyone? Anyone want some 30 Year Bonds denominated in functionally illiterate American Children. Hummedddy Hummedddy Hummmedddyyy, goin once.... goin twice.... SOLD!!! TO the Sucker waving their Hope and Change flag!!!

UPS cuts insurance to 15,000 spouses, blames Obamacare

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Yes, they do. They're famous for it. Why are all - every single freaking one - of your historical assertions in factual error?

Just like companies such as UPS are famous for lying about their abuses and problems.

But in this modern age, after so many decades of watching corporations lie and cheat and steal and rig and undermine and propagandize and bribe and "advertize" and throw their weight around trying to influence politics in the interest of their bottom line, nobody is really childish and ignorant and naive enough to just take the word of some big corporation's PR release on an important political issue - right?

 

Give me an example of a single American selling their child into slavery in the last century.

Was it the Government or Private Corporations that dropped two nuclear weapons on civilian populations of innocent women and children in Japan?
Was it the Federal Government or a corporation that fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" to invade Vietnam and rape and murder civilian populations of innocent women and children?
Was it the Federal Government or a corporation that lied about WMD to invade Iraq and are, as we speak, rape and murder innocent civilian populations of women and children?

Who is the largest polluter in the Human History of Earth? The US Federal Government or a corporation?
Who uses the most petroleum on the plant? The US Federal Government or a corporation?
Who uses drones to kill US Citizens overseas? The US Federal Government or a corporation?

Who forces a day-laborer to pay a Tax to the IRS on the earnings he/she makes day-laboring? Is that the US Federal Government or a corporation?
Who has the largest prison population per capita in the world? The Federal Government or corporations PAID FOR BY the Federal Government? Ever hear of Fascism?

Who secretly spy's on us? The Federal Government or a corporation? See, Google makes it quite clear they WILL retain your search records for free use of their services. BUT, you do not HAVE to use Google. You can choose to use a different search engine. Not so with the NSA - they are spying on us and there is NOTHING that can be done. It's here - permanently. Vote in whom ever the f*ck you want to vote in - the internet is going to be brought in under total control by the US Federal Government. When that happens, you won't have to worry about me posting. Not that I'm paranoid, I just want you to know the effect this has on free communication in general. How is destroys society.

Tell me, are there ANY Private Schools that you know of that pay their teachers >$75,000 a year to pump out a graduating class of 47% functionally illiterates? Know of ANY Public Ones? You do know you can learn to read and write with a f*cking piece of paper and pencil?

Was it a corporation or the US Federal Government that created this new term called "TBTF" and proceeded to bail out the criminals bankers - not a single one prosecuted? Who was that?
Is it the The US Federal Government or a corporation that sells 30 Year Bonds on your children's labor?

You just go down that list and tick tick tick Federal Government for each and every one.





Let's see how ObamaCare works out for America. You want a "Progressive Government" to provide you with "FREE Services" that's fine - but you don't get to keep your civil liberties and personal privacy. That's the price. So, again, I do hope you enjoy your ObamaCare. I hope it was worth it to you.

 

You said "history", not "last century". Americans historically sold their children into slavery routinely right up until other Americans made and enforced laws prohibiting such behavior - only coercive, gunpoint government intrusion into the free market of the capitalist slave traders stopped the practice.

Private corporations. The NSA has been tapping them for their data, lately, which is a scandal.

Several bankers - granted not the big fish, but some - have been prosecuted. The creation and government collusion of banks so big they could hold the economy hostage was a product of the bribed repeal of key regulations and the well calculated influence accumulating policies of a couple of private financial powers - especially Goldman Sachs.

Attempts to reimpose regulations have failed so far, mostly because of opposition from rightwing libertarians and "free market" advocates.

No.

Neither do you. You and physical reality just seem to have a built in conflict of interest. http://www1.salary.com/MI/Detroit/Public-School-Teacher-salary.html

 

You probably agree that children should love their parents? Yes? Well, are you going to pass a law obligating them to?! Or do you think their love should come from the years you spent caring for them? You seem to view society as this horrible place where no one would bother lifting a hand to help anyone, and sadly, this is what you're creating - an uncaring cold society dependent on law, the threat of force and fear of the omnipresent State.

 

WSJ reports: IBM to Move Retirees Off Health Plan

110,000 current and soon to be eligible retirees working for IBM woke up to an unpleasant surprise this morning, when the WSJ reported that as a result of soaring healthcare costs, the tech bellwether giant will be terminating its company-sponsored health plan.

"Cost increases under our current retirement group health care plan are no longer sustainable for you," IBM said in the notices. "Health care costs under IBM's current plan options for Medicare eligible retirees will nearly triple by 2020, significantly impacting your premium and out of pocket costs,"​

Good thing we have Free ObamaCare - more Government, that'll fix it. Thank the Gods we don't have an actual free-market in healthcare (or anything else). We used to, back 80 years ago. That similarly caused a problem, the prices were too LOW. Hence the AMA was born. The AMA can allow for Unionisation, something I'm in favor of in the free-market/private sector. The things is, it's impossible to hold prices high. The temptation to dump AMA membership and jump into that rising tide of cash is to great. People always give in. Which is why prices always spiral downward. There's only been one documented case of a true monopoly, and that was in aluminium, and the supplier was forced to keep prices ultra low (which must seem odd, that's because this was at a time when there were free markets, something we have no experience living with). So, the AMA (the second largest political donor in Washington) bought off politicians and passed a bunch of 'regulation' to 'help ensure quality medicine' (you know, because you're a dumb-arse) and today they (and we) are reaping the rewards. Out of control healthcare.

Extreme hyper-regulation where it's not even legal to open a Hospital without getting AMA approval, it's not possible to offer fMRI scans - without getting AMA approval, it's not possible to give advice - without getting AMA approval. If you offer free advice, say your mate gets an ear ache and you suggest a treatment, you are breaking the law and legally put in prison (initiation of force against an innocent can ONLY be done by the State).

Hope you like higher medical bills, because they are coming your way soon.

 

Both, of course.

And you do not have to use the Internet.

Sure there is. There are several free encryption packs out there that the NSA can't break.

Was it the US government or noble private corporations that caused the two biggest oil spills in US history?

Corporations (i.e. mortgage companies.)

 

Insured?

Ayush001, Michael... are you insured? Have you ever let your health go rather than to receive a huge medical or dental bill, even though you have insurance?

Well for the poor, health insurance has not been an option. If they had it through work, they couldn't afford it for their spouse or children.

And a great many people have preexisting conditions that preclude them from getting insurance.

Now, IBM's decision to not provide insurance for retirees who are eligible for Medicare likely doesn't sound like it will destroy these retirees. They will turn to Medicare and gap coverage.

So what is the real reason you are upset?

I think this phenomenon of Americans pining so desperately to "bring back preexisting conditions" and "get to the bottom of Benghazi" and other Repub talking points is really fueled by things like:

* racism
* Ayn Rand's evil philosophy ("Whatever *I* want is right")
* ignorance
* fear
* the lies of Faux News and other front groups for the rich and corporations
* stupid preachers

You're on the bandwagon. Ya saw the parade going by and you just jumped on. You don't give a shit about Benghazi! You want to besmirch the President so you can get old, pasty faced white guys back in the White House like "the good ol' days".

Obamacare is a *great* thing. The President is doing a *good* job. And the Repug are doing all this:

* voter suppression and Gerrymandering
* keeping an unconstitutional pact to shield the 2/3 of corporations that pay zero or less taxes from taxation
* keeping an unconstitutional pact to shield rich individuals from taxation
* gutting Medicare, Medicaid, "food stamps" (SNAP), veterans benefits
* defunding Obamacare
* shutting down the government!
* racism
* gun lunacy
* removing a minimum wage
* union busting
* eliminating environmental protections
* replacing science with superstition and ignorance
* privatizing all public services (schools, prisons, police, etc)

If you want to be a patriot, don't rant the Heritage Foundation talking points. Turn your back on the guys that voted to take food from millions of elderly, poor, disabled, unemployed, veterans in need, etc.

And dump Ayn Rand's "selfishness is good, altruism is evil" mentality.

 

Food.

Food is a basic necessity. In the USA, it's abundant. Most 'poor' are dying of OVEReating. Not starvation. I doubt you could find a single genuine cases of someone (not on drugs or being abused) actually starving to death in the USA. Do you think we need ObamaFood?

It seems to me, that when the markets are allowed to somewhat function (and there are NO free markets but food is an example of something that was, at one time, close to one) then we actually get an abundance of cheap goods and services. Like food.


How about pocket supercomputers that can connect to anyone in the world for real-time video communication? Access to ANY information in the world. Do you think we need ObamaPocketSuperComputers?


It seems to me, that when the markets are allowed to somewhat function (and there are NO free markets but smart phones are an example of something somewhat close to one) then we actually get an abundance of cheap goods and services. Like pocket sized super computers.


And etc.....



The FACT is, the Government/State is set apart from any other group of humans by one legal quality: It MUST/is Obligated to initiate force against the Citizens. So, when you say we need ObamaCare, what you're saying is we need force, because somehow in a so-called "FREE" society - force against the citizen is the ONLY option.

The real reason why insurance and healthcare is so expensive is because both of these industries are MASSIVELY regulated by the State. Central Planning can not work efficiently. I don't care if it's growing food, making smart phones or providing healthcare. If you want Central Planned anything - you must give up Civil Rights in order to get it. It will cost more and you'll have less freedom than in a true free-market.

Healthcare USED to be cheap in the USA. The AMA put an end to that. The AMA isn't the second largest political campaign donor for nothing. They WANT you to pay a lot - and a lot you will pay.


Lastly, my own person opinion is, given we're stuck living in a caveman society based on clubbing people to death, then I don't mind giving up efficiency to ensure all children are given healthcare. Of course, this means we should close down much of the military and spend more on children. Too Bad Americans, who love clubbing people to death, will never do that.

 

Yes, and a lot of people believe it. Fortunately we have a government that does not allow sale of children into slavery no matter what the person believes.

Well, you are a "slave" to libertarianism, so I guess that makes you equal.

Not around here. You should move if you want to smoke pot and your local government does not allow you to.

So do I. (We refer to those child-caging contracts as "mortgages.")

That's because they, in fact, once did. But that should be fine for a libertarian - after all, it's a free market! And if daughters bring a good price, why not sell them and reap a tidy profit instead of being a slave to a tyrannical government that tries to micromanage your family?