Are the laws of physics based on magic?

I guess even atheists can be ignorant. Even atheists can fail to be thoughtful.

 

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Phonon?

 

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There is no such thing as chance, there is a rational explanation for everything. Chance can only be used to describe things we do not fully understand.

 

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Well we maybe able to predict and model via the laws of physics, but as yet we do not know why they are at the particular value that they are.......and if we speculate beyond the BB, we can assume that the fluctuation in the quantum foam out of which the BB arose, would not have been the only fluctuation, nor consequently the only BB....so yes, indeed, the laws of physics are as they are by pure chance.

And quite obviously, just because something is by pure chance, does not mean we should not be able to explain it.

 

Does the quantum foam exist now as an experimentally verifiable phenomenon? Or is it just a mathematical model? A guess?

 

It's speculation Mazula....But a scenario that I like. Just as a divine creator is speculative but your preferred option. [not that there is anything wrong with that]

 

Then by that same model, if there were any other universes, then those universes would be connected to the quantum foam just as ours is, right?

 

Think of it as analogous to a bath tub half filled with soapy water....The bubbles that arise on the surface [BBs] are different from each other....some emerge and burst straight away...others rise and expand to larger bubbles and may not burst......yet all are connected/arisen from the same soapy surface.

 

It's ok to label something as "unknown." Mankind has this insatiable need to label everything, to "know" everything and even label the unknown with a potential answer. Through my own self discovery and letting go of the trappings of religion and the need to tag line "it must be God," for unexplained phenomenon, I have come to the conclusion that it's okay to dub something "unknown" until it's known. I'm finally ok with calling pre-Big Bang "uncaused." If God exists, he will never be proven by science.

If there is a god, why do we need to explain him to others? :shrug:
As if somehow "proving" that God was the force that caused the BB will somehow drop everyone to their knees praising him? That's not how "faith" works, anyhow.

I'm respectful of alternative ideas including spirituality, but not necessarily the motives behind this need to drag "a higher power" into the mix at every turn.

 

Just for fun, I can envision a science fiction scenario, a different kind of hyper-drive that nobody has ever thought of. It works by stimulating the creation of unstable hyper-space universes around the spaceship. They don't fill with energy because they're too unstable. They only last for a few femto seconds. But when a lot of them are generated, they produce the same effect as a 10,000c (ten thousand times the speed of light) field around the spaceship. This makes it possible for the space-ship to easily exceed the speed of light with very reasonable energy requirements.

 

You should not forget that on many occasions, Today's Science Fiction will be Tomorrow's Science Fact.



At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new. This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

 

Well my idea of changing the physics constant around a spaceship are a long long way off. Even if highly unstable universes, with a higher speed of light, could be stimulated into existence, I truly have no idea how this could be done. Sure someone could ruthlessly attack my idea, but I was inspired by it by the idea that our universe just spontaneously big banged into existence. I am just extrapolating from known scientific beliefs in a quantum foam.

 

From wiki,

Apparently heat, speed, and pressure had something to do with all this. A pretty good model, knowing that this is how we can create particles.

Ok, and your "model" is based on ?? Not who, but how??

 

All the heat, speed, pressure and energy of the big bang came from, in my view, the rolled up energy of space-time. A flat space-time has zero gravitational energy. But if space-time is rolled up into a tiny ball or a singularity, then it has near infinite negative potential energy (gravitational energy), and near infinite positive energy (energy of the big bang). They sum to zero. There was a video in one of the earlier posts that I watched. Apparently, the singularity needed just a bit more energy to make it an open universe. That energy is said to have come from the pre-existing quantum foam (I guess).

So basically, the answer we get from science, which is probably a place-holder for a better theory some day, is that the big bang, the singularity and the creation of the laws of physics and physics constants came from phenomena occuring in the quantum foam.

But since science doesn't really know, then we are all free to speculate. And maybe it was created by God, I don't know, I wasn't there.

 

You did not answer the question of how. If in fact "quantum foam" (which btw needs not necessarily be physical) was the condition which created the BB, how would god have created this foam in the first place? Taking a bubble bath? (sorry if that sounded snide, but it was brought up before.)

It is not a question of who or what, the question for science is how. Only then can we start models of what God is and how it works.

 

The quantum foam is a scientific idea; but let me try something. Based on everything that I know, if I had to guess how the universe, the singularity came into existence, it would be this way...

Wave-functions would have to exist is some way that is not physical (since we can't actually detect them directly). If I were God, I would use SPIRIT. By SPIRIT, I mean an invisible/undetectable medium that would obey and enforce a set of rules absolutely. This medium would be the spirit manifestation behind all electromagnetic frequencies, which we calculate and call wave-functions. Any energy (postive energy) in the medium would have to manifest only in ways allowable by the medium (particles/waves/E&M radiation/etc...).

To do this, there would have to be spirit medium(s) already existing, mediums that could be caused to obey a set of rules, and then you set it loose.

Basically, the physics constants, the physics laws, and the requirements for particles to exist are all imprinted into the spirit medium.

I'm just trying to imagine how a Deity would do it. But there would have to be an invisible/undetectable component that enforces physics laws and constants, that becomes the space-time continuum.

 

How about Potential, the invisible/undetectable component that not only "allows", but also defines how physics laws and constants function?

 

Like potential and kinetic energy? The big bang has already happened 13.7 billions year ago. Yet the physics constants and the physics laws continue to be upheld. I don't think "potential" is the right word. But there probably is some word that will be pallitable for scientists.

 

I suggest you do an in-depth study of the word "potential"; you'll find that it is a common denominator of EVERYTHING!
You exist not because of God, you exist because the potential for your existence was already present before you were born.
In fact, the potential for the BB already existed before it happened.

 

Well said Wegs.