Questions for Atheists (Refresher Thread)

Well that would be exactly the same as "strong theism". You should be aware you're attempting to show something by making the most petty of all posts i've seen here. Look at both sides: There is no god vs there is god. No difference. Nobody knows the answer.

And nobody has to be god-like to not have faith. What's your point? Is there a point? Look, whatever way you look at it written texts are weak evidence at best. They are open to wild and opinion based interpretation, have been translated so many times from so many different cultures and religions, were written by people we do not know. Can you refute the possibility any/all of the authors were not drug takers? Were not blatant liars? There is nothing to back up your claims- absolute squat. On one hand religious folk turn round and say no-one can understand the word of god and then with a flick of the wrist claim they can understand it. All that is shown is contradiction, hypocricy and wild assumption.

Many hours of study heh? Ooooh well... how can we even begin to doubt you then?

What is it you're trying to say here??

 

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Re: Re: what made the big bang go bang?

You seem to have dodged the question as well in that you are defining your life not by how well you live it, but rather how well you prepare for death (and the afterlife). Atheists who live their life well (and not all do) have no reason to believe that their life is a waste. And, if they are wrong about God, a truly all-forgiving God will understand and accept that as well.

By your definition, "strong atheism" is a religious belief in the same category as "catholicism" and with all the same drawbacks.

What makes you think that (weak) atheists have a reason to fear God? Perhaps the purpose of the atheist is to bring religious fanatics into a true understanding of God through a greater understanding of his works in the Universe. In essense, the atheists care if you are wrong.

What else -- Mother Nature...

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1.the big bang...the universe might have existed in the past before the big bang but since there is evidence of a big bang it has to be assumed that at that moment there was no matter in space.

2.immediatley after the big bang...there were about 25 dimensions.....a few seconds after...a large number of them shrunk to very very small size. could matter not behave in the same way?
.............

i have a question to ppl who believe in god......

where is god? isn't evolution a perfectly plausible explanation for our present situation rather than the presence of an unseen force?
where does god live.....all around us? after death do we really move on to some higher(or lower) place, or do our bodies just decompose?

i want to belive in god..but i can't.he is a comfort barrier.

 

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Re: Re: what made the big bang go bang?

I spend my life educating myself and contributing to society with logical thought and compassion towards my fellow man. When I die the world will be better because of my presence for posterity, maybe not for millions of people, but surely for one or two people. A waste of time, IMHO, would be for me to spend an hour every sunday lying to myself about the existance of the supernatural. I might as well spend an hour in a graveyard looking for ghosts.

Or, perhaps you only have to REASON out there is no such thing as a god because its a fairy tale made to scare people into acting according to rules and regulations setup by man professing to speak for a higher power.

Oh, I forgot about that proof of its existance. God gave us the scriptures, forgot about that one. What an amizing and thouroughly convincing point. (choking on sarcasm, struggles to get to the point) That is no such proof, nothing scientific about it, all faith based, and faith proves NOTHING, mainly because there is nothing to prove.

What the hell was in there that convinced you so easily and completely? The total lack of modern rationality, or the sedation of your brain by the brainwash words like "paradise" and "heaven". Sure, there must be a god, b/c you spent a couple of hours reading a book that has nothing to do with whether or not he exists, but what this fictional being wishes you to do with your life on earth.

Really scary that your belief in god comes from prophecies in a book that was written (and rewritten) thousands of years ago, by people who spoke another language, that you don't even know were non-fiction.

This shit is why Christians in general are vile IMO. You ARE trying to scare people into a faith. Thats why criminals repent, thats why the idea of hell was created: to sedate the uneducated masses and scare them into living a moral life (which is a unsuccessful way of doing it)

I once told this girl I know that I didn't believe in heaven or hell (at that time I was a very liberal christian) and she said something along the lines of "Well, for your sake, I hope you're right" Implying that if I were wrong, I WOULD BURN IN HELL!!!
WTF, how immoral and illogical is that deal? I roast for eternity while a repentent killer gets "paradise"

I am damn sure there are no supernatural forces acting upon the naturalistic realm we are a part of, nor have there ever been any, ever. This conclusion is based on science and reasoning. You are wasting your life with belief in the supernatural.

I'm sorry to be so rude and pugnacious with my next statement (in fact, i apoligize for the tone in my entire reply, I am usually not that ugly):

Santa Claus made matter by having sex with an alien and using telpathy to explode a bomb...made of magic.

ZERO MASS

 

bloody hell im not going to read through 4 pages of 10 answers so here are mine! =)

#1. Has the universe always existed? If yes... explain how you can KNOW this. If no... explain how it began.

--> I dont even believe i exist. i have the same amount of proof that i exist that i exhibit when i dream! i have died in dreams before, i have eaten food, drunk drinks, drove cars, done pretty much everything ( my dreams are pretty realistic) and even been eaten by an alligator in a dream, and in that dream, i did believe that i existed, in that dream, i would have bet ANYTHING I was real. So i really cant KNOW whether or not i exist or not and thus am unable to ascertain the same about the universe. Especially since i dont believe that it exists. -->yes, i am confused =) <--

#2. Where did matter come from (assuming it did not exist at some point in the past).

--> This is a ridiculous question. Particularly since people who have been studying and questioning this since man became sentient havent been able to figure it out. Sure I could say, "well, its simple, god did it", thats just too easy. Im trying to think for myself. Even with the above as my answer, WHY would god create matter to begin with. He is obviously not the god you think he is if he would create worlds with so much hardship and suffering. "People cause suffering" --> What about AIDS? What about people slipping and falling off cliffs? What about insane people who kill people because it gives them pleasure? I believe those are faultless.

#3. Prove, citing empirical evidence only, that Socrates existed.

--> Impossible, you cant even prove that you exist and thus this question is irrelevant.

#4. Given the interdependency of the organs of the human body, can you explain which organ evolved first?

--> Obviously the brain evolved first, but not as we know it. I believe it started out as amino acids which were created via lightning and various elements (proven in some experiment, ill be damned if i can remember his name but it was in my science book) which merged into a nucleus which is the simplest brain i can think of.

#5. Keeping in mind the concept of entropy, how did any minute form of matter exit the "water" and remain exposed long enough to begin the process of macro-evolving over "billions" of years?

--> Entropy? Enthalpy? This is something to do with chemistry but since my teacher is a crack head i learn nothing.

#6. If you answered #5, please prove your theory using empirical evidence only.

#7. Did insects evolve? Explain...

--> Obviously. They are very well adapted to their environment and thus have not changed much since they achieved their present form. Look at the dragonfly with 3 foot wingspans in the mesazoic era, it was built for that time, which had thicker air, bigger predators, more wild life, etc. Now look at it now, theres really no need for it to be 3 feet long and it fits succesfully into it's niche as a top predator.

#8. How did sexual reproduction evolve?

-->It began with asexual reproduction, see the Ameoba(Sp?) =)
and eventually as creatures evolved more, got more complex, evolved into multicellular creatures,etc. They began to gain more advance RNA and DNA and chromosomes which led to the X and Y chromosome essential for sexual reproduction! hooray for 9th grade Biology!

#9. Which part of the human eye evolved first (pupil, iris, lens, cornea, retina, optic nerve, etc.)?

--> it would have been the photoreceptor cells in the retina, early creatures have primitive eyes made up of photoreceptors which enable them to see light and not much else. Before that it was simpler, and as the creatures evolved they got more complicated. Obviously you cant have a complete skeleton emerge from a single cell.

#10. Explain: If you were God... I know some of you think you already are... ... but seriously, if you were God, what moral laws would you implement to make a society orderly and civil.

--> My only law: Do whatever you want as long as it doesnt infringe on someone elses ability to do what they want. Whether they want to live alone, to have a cow, or just to be alive. If everyone did that, everything would be fine. Also, if you argue : What if you steal something from someone, it doesnt affect them! It infringed on their desire to be in possession of whatever you took, as long as everyone followed that one simple guidline, everything would be fine. Sadly, people lack the ability to consistently think through their actions...

All in all, these questions really dont prove anything, but answering them was fun =)

 

Holy Crap Carnuth,
Your responses added nothing to the discussion, please get more of an opinion than stuff from your ninth grade text book/what you heard on MTV/ crap you can not remember or care enough about to research.
I really hope you were trying to be funny with that entire reply man, or else go back to studying that damn 9th grade Bio...

Oh yeah, and your answer to number 10 was too stupid to make fun of, please punch yourself in the head for me,

ZERO MASS

 

wow, get a life - i really dont dont feel the need to research things when i am giving my opinion of the answer to the questions. Dont take yourself too seriously man, I wonder if you talk to people on the street like that. And if you think you are so superior, read the great gatsby, just the first 2 paragraphs will do.

 

Re: Re: Re: what made the big bang go bang?

ZeroMass,

The difference between you and I is that I respect you as a person. I do not think I'm better than you. If there is no God there is no eternal being to answer to and you could give a rat's arse about respecting me. You could kill me and it wouldn't make any big deal if you could get away with it.

You apologized for the profanity in your message, yet you still posted it and could have even gone back to edit it and you didn't. What kind of person knows something is wrong and still does it? A sinner, that's who. You and me are sinners and there is only one person that redeems us from that sin nature.

What's a bigger fairy tale, to think we were created from a supernatural being or that life spontaneously created itself? Let me know when you've sparked life in a science experiment.

Take care,
Gene

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: what made the big bang go bang?

How about this: Do you know about gravity? Gravity is one of the fundamental forces in the universe right? What if there is another called "the life-force" (the force that makes life happen in the universe) or whatever you want to label it. Isn't that more plausible that a supernatural being? I wouldn't imagine it would be to someone who is an unquestioning religious person, but to a sensible mind it would seem that it must be more plausible. Maybe not. *shrug*

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: what made the big bang go bang?

I respect your conviction, even though it is haphazard and illogical in its roots. I do NOT respect your closed mind, your accusative nature, and your lack of reason. You DO think you are better than I am; don't even try to feed me that bullcrap. I think that I'm better than you are also, at least in this one aspect: Intelligence.

How about we humans answer to reason and logic instead of a fairy tale.
Everybody wants to live, so we make a law against killing.
Basic crap like that you can figure out without believing in a magician in the sky that is invisible. And last time I checked that was how we did it in America, those things called laws were made by humans.

It would make a big deal if I killed you and got away because that would be a failure in our justice system which we could work on improving, you peice of crap (sorry, the disrespect is beginning to show).

So what happens if I kill you and then repent and let Jesus into my heart? Wouldn't that also be a way of getting away with murder? As I will be washed of my sins and allowed into heaven?
I think that Christianity (not too sure about all religions, so I'll pick on yours) is hypocritical in that sense.
I could kill tons of people, repent and get into heaven. So where is the law that says killing is wrong and will be punished? I don't know exactly if you believe that shit, but a lot of people do.

Holy Crap, I apologized for my profanity? Show me where, you piece of crap.
I apologized that I had to take an uncivil tone, I am super sorry I was so sarcastic, but it is just so damn easy to make fun of you. Hope god doesn't banish me from paradise for that one!

I'm a sinner? Why? I don't mind being bashed on some forum, in fact Carnuth just did it (weakly, but he still did it) in an above reply. So that’s the way that I want you to treat me, if I say something totally base, like everything you have said, then call me out on it

I get offended when people say that I am going to go to this imaginary horrible place for all eternity because they are better than I am.

You and I are…
Don't ever put me in the same boat as you ever again. Your ship is sinking and I will have no part of it.

And are you saying that nature is a sin, or that nature saves from sin, b/c I can't really tell.

Supernatural being, that’s the biggest fucking fairy tale ever. I mean, what did you expect me to say?
Let me know when you prove anything about religion.

p.s. Carnuth, you still suck, but I am sorry that it was me that had to point it out. (Its cool, I suck too, I just suck less)

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ZERO MASS

 

I gotta go with zero mass on all that there.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what made the big bang go bang?

ZeroMass,

No sir, I do not think I'm better than you and I won't sink to petty personal attacks.

Take care,
Gene

 

Oh but HEY!

Genexian, Zero Mass.. welcome aboard. Sciforums is mental crack baby... fire it up!!!!!!

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what made the big bang go bang?

I am sorry, I did not want to come off as if I was attacking YOU personally; I was mocking the religion and lifestyle to which you are a member.
I do claim superiority over you in intelligence (b/c I am a genius)
But you beat me in the category of say, Faith, or Belief. Admirable in some ways, I have admired many people who have Faith in a deity, but for them to have my respect they must accept that reason dominates our lives and should never be erased by religion.

Yeah, you won't sink to my level, but you sure are quick to banish me to hell.

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Blame it on Christians

ZERO MASS

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what made the big bang go bang?

I would never do such a thing my friend. I have much love for all of my brothers and sisters regardless of their faith or lack of it. God reserves the right to judge someone and banish them to hell. What I say is never in an attempt to appear of a superior intelligence or to talk down to anyone.

From my point of view it's like watching someone stand in front of a train and I can't do anything to save them. What I say I say in love not pride.

Even though you won't, try and put yourself in my shoes and imagine what it's like to have such a strong faith and indwelling of the Holy Spirit that you know there is a God because he has convicted you, but no matter what you say or do you cannot convince your friend to honestly and objectively consider Jesus Christ as the Lord and Savior of every person on this Earth.

In my opinion I see God as the Almighty, independent of time and space. My little mind can apprehend that concept, but cannot comprehend that concept. A loose example to try an explain that would be that we are living our lives streetside watching a parade march by. The beginning of the parade began a while ago and the end of the parade will come in the future. We can only be present at any one point of the parade. God is in the helicopter and can see the beginning and end, independent of the time it takes the parade to pass by.

If I could comprehend my God, I don't think I would respect that God. Science is great in that it attempts to read God's blueprints. Science will never prove or disprove God.

"I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details" -Albert Einstein

Take care and enjoy your life. Tick tock tick tock.

 

Yeah... what you forgot to mention is God was the one who put the train there in the first place.

Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God..."

"Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children..... Defile the temple and fill the courts with slain. Go!...."

What else...

God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the apple or they would instantly die. The serpent said they wouldn't.... The serpent was right. God was a liar.

"The Lord was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain..." (God has a heart? Doesn't that possibly suggest mortality?) "...I will wipe makind, whom i have created, from the face of the earth.."

"Then the Lord rained down burning sulphur on Sodom and Gomorrah.... but Lots wife looked back and she became a pillar of salt"

The ten plagues.... (you know what he did there)

Feast of Tabernacles .... (why does god need cows, sheep and virgin women as offerings?)

"The Lord will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in the book of the Law until you are destroyed... Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you.."

"The Lord will never be willing to forgive him; his wrath and zeal will burn agains that man. All the curses written in this book will fall upon him, and the Lord will blot out his name from under heaven. The Lord will single him out from all the tribes of Israel for disaster..."


Sounds like someone i'd rather not be friendly with.

 

Me too when you take it out of context like that and mistranslate Greek into words like "instantly".

Pasting selected scriptures without a good explination of the context makes way for mistaken assumptions.

The Bible describes faith as "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). Though I'm now convinced of the reliability of all Scripture, I'm not one who blindly accepts everything I read. Many good people struggle with their faith, especially when they hear or read attacks on the validity of Noah and the Ark (or any of many other Bible stories). God did not leave His existence without clear and convincing proofs that can be found inside and outside the Bible. One cannot use the story of Noah's Ark as the foundation of one's faith. No where does the Bible suggest that God intends for believers to blindly, mindlessly follow without ever questioning.

The undeniable proof of His existence and the evidence of His love and power is evident at the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is this single event that is the center of human history and the pivotal moment in the Bible. Once I became one hundred percent convinced that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, all other challenges to faith are minor and inconsequential. The only conclusions that can be reached about Jesus Christ is that He was a legend, a liar, a lunatic, or the Lord. Which conclusion have you reached? If you don't yet trust the Holy Bible as a reliable witness, then please read the evidence that comes from historical extra-biblical sources. The evidence is overwhelming, for those willing to take time to study it. If it's true that Jesus Christ died for our sins, then was resurrected from the dead (as I declare), then our acceptance or rejection of Him will have eternal consequences for us all.

His unworthy servant,
Gene

 

No, it really isn't. These are tertiary sources, giving only accounts of other accounts and even most of these are questionable. At best (giving you for the moment that they might be valid) they only report that the person named Jesus existed and that he was the leader of the Jewish sect that developed into Christianity, they in no way confirm any miracles much less prove those claims.

Folklore is replete with exaggerations and myths. For instance; the tale of George Washington chopping down the cherry tree is an outright fabrication. Perhaps there was a person like Jesus (personally I am inclined to think so), however the possibility that he did, in fact, exist gives no credence to the miraculous stories that were written down about him 70 and more years after his death. In fact, noting the prevalence of known historical myths, it is truly a leap of faith to believe them all outright.

~Raithere

 

Ah lol! When the bible states anything evil and nasty associated with God it's 'out of contxt mistranslated Greek' but when it says anything that looks good it's 'the word of god'..... Boy you have some mental issues. Can't you even see the stupidity?

Ummmm don't take it out of context- that's just mistranslated Greek.....

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So was Jesus a liar or a lunatic. Snakelord tends to believe that Jesus did exist and both of you feel that Jesus was not the Lord of all men and savior of their souls. I don't think you guys consider him a lunatic as even the least educated of men consider Jesus a wise and moral person.

If you guys knew something was a lie would you die for it? Explain to me how the apostles continued to further a belief if they knew it were a lie. They died some pretty gruesome deaths for this lie...

Matthew suffered martyrdom in Ethopia, killed by a sword wound.

Mark died in Alexandria, Egypt, dragged by horses through the streets until he was dead.

Luke was hanged in Greece as a result of his tremendous preaching to the lost.

John was boiled in a huge basin of boiling oil during a wave of persecution in Rome. However, he was miraculously delivered from death. John was then sentenced to the mines on the prison island of Patmos where he wrote his prophetic Book of Revelation. The Apostle John was later freed and returned to serve as a bishop in modern Turkey. He died an old man, the only Apostle to die peacefully.

Peter,was crucified upside down on an x-shaped cross, according to Church tradition, because he told his tormentors that he felt unworthy to die the same way that Jesus Christ had died.

James the Just, the leader of the Church in Jerusalem and brother of Jesus, was thrown down more than a hundred feet from the southeast pinnacle of the Temple when he refused to deny his faith in Christ. When they discovered that he survived the fall, his enemies beat James to death with a fuller's club. This was the same pinnacle where Satan had taken Jesus during the Temptation.

James the Greater, a son of Zebedee, was a fisherman by trade when Jesus called him to a lifetime of ministry. As a strong leader of the Church, James was ultimately beheaded at Jerusalem. The Roman soldier who guarded James watched amazed as James defended his faith at his trial. Later, the officer walked beside James to the place of execution. Overcome by conviction, he declared his new faith to the judge and knelt beside James to accept beheading as a Christian.

Bartholomew, also known as Nathanael, was a missionary to Asia. He witnessed about our Lord in present day Turkey. He was whipped to death for his preaching in Armenia.

Thomas was speared and died on one of his missionary trips to establish the Church in India.

Jude, another brother of Jesus, was killed with arrows after refusing to deny his faith in Christ.

Matthias, the Apostle chosen to replace the traitor Judas Iscariot, was stoned and beheaded.

Barnabas, one of the group of seventy disciples, was stoned to death at Salonica.

Paul was tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67. Paul endured a lengthy imprisonment which allowed him to write his many epistles to the Churches he had formed throughout the Roman Empire. These letters, which taught many of the foundational doctrines of Christianity, from a large portion of the New Testament.

Your friend,
Gene

ps. Can you drop the personal attacks? There is no need for that in an intelligible argument.