Recent scientific breakthroughs in anti-aging research indicate that human lifespan is about to be increased dramatically. Scientists no longer talk of aging as being natural but as a disease to be cured like any other. Leading much of this research is the Geron Corporation http://www.geron.com/ who have pioneered the work with telomeres. Think of telomeres as the caps at the end of genes. Each time a cell divides the telomeres become shorter. After a while the telomeres become so short that they prevent the cell from dividing and the cell becomes senescent. This is how we experience aging. The new discoveries show that it is possible to stop the telomeres from becoming shorter and allow cells to divide indefinitely. It seems inevitable that humans will be able to take full advantage of these discoveries and will face the possibility of indefinite lifespans. Other scientific breakthroughs have revealed the ability to grow human cells in the laboratory and that these cells can be made to form replacement organs. For the moment skin cells and cartilage have been produced, and again it seems inevitable that all other organs will follow. If our current lifespans can be increased to 200 or 300 years then imagine what further breakthrougths will occur during that time that will enable us to continue indefinitely. When this occurs we will be faced with some interesting challenges to our social and economic systems, not to mention population control (until we can escape the planet). Accept for the moment that all this will occur and consider the implications for religion. I suggest that all religions only exist because death exists. Over the aeons man has been faced with the inevitability that he will die and many have had difficulty facing the prospect of their own eventual non-existence. This has naturally led to the idea that perhaps there is something after death and with this calming thought the fears of death are reduced and religions are born. The common factor in every religion is the promise of a life after death. Perhaps a heaven or hell, or reincarnation, but whatever the method, there is always the promise of something beyond death. To enter the afterlife, or to have an appropriate quality afterlife, it is necessary to obey a set of rules. With Christianity the rules take the form of asking for forgiveness, accepting Christ as your saviour, etc. Each religion has its own unique set of rules, and it is these rules that differentiate the religions of the world, but the final promise is identical, in all essential respects. I further suggest that if death no longer becomes inevitable then religions will become meaningless and will eventually fade away.
You suggest taht religions exist because death exists. I suggest that death exists because life exists. I suggest that life exists because God exists. I suggest that the longer we live the more we will need to be forgiven.
Wizard, It seems that there is a misunderstanding. Salvation is for the living. It begins in the here and now.
Wiz, <img src = "http://users.esc.net.au/~nitro/BBoard_member_gifs/bowser_anim.gif">Will that gene therapy be covered by my HMO?<img src = "http://www.exosci.com/ubb/icons/icon7.gif"> I think your suggestion is valid: "...Religions only exist because death exists." Simply put, we don't know for certain what awaits us after life, and nobody wants to die. This is why most religions offer "life after death." It gives hope to the idea that we might somehow escape oblivion. I doubt that we will ever truly conquer death, and for this reason, there will always be the need for the afterlife. Also, my guess is that only the rich will have the resources to take advantage of such advances in gene manipulations, leaving the poor to take comfort in their faith. ------------------ It's all very large.
Christian: Sounds like you're planning a party that's going to need forgiveness. Can I come?jk Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I don't think that religion will die out. I think it will evolve to suit the times at hand. Centuries ago you were guaranteed a place in Hell if you did not observe the required rituals during the appropriate bell ringing. (This in itself spawned from an earlier necessity to give order to a small village before clocks were invented.) As populations grew, the needs of the community shifted. The invention of the clock made the church bells little more than a pastoral accessory. The needs of the community required longer working hours to feed and clothe so many people, so it didn't really matter if you observed the daily rituals, just as long as you showed up on Sunday. Eventually, the chiming for the daily rituals died out, except in monasteries and convents. The Sunday ritual lasted for quite some time until society shifted again, populations got larger, almost out of hand, and places had to stay open to serve the needs of a very active, busy, and industrious society. What was a person to do if they only had Sunday off and every place they needed to go was closed? So, places began to stay open, which required workers to sacrifice their souls for the good of the community (and it didn't hurt their bosses' wallets, either). Seeing the need for such activity, the church began to drop the stigma from missing the Sunday ritual, allowing home bible study courses and general get-togethers to allow the faithful to tend to the needs of their community and to commune with their god. These days, few people can find time for a proper study period. With kids, school, work, home, and other commitments, you've done well if you've gotten past Genesis 1:1. Most faithful have never even picked up their bibles. It's not that they are necessarily at fault or hypocritical, it's just that the demands of modern life have left them exhausted. To deal with this atmosphere, the church summed up their teachings in a sort of Cliff Notes fashion that pretty much covers the gist of the faith; believe in God, accept Jesus, don't kill, don't hurt, don't steal, don't lie. It's sort of a pocket-sized list of Commandments that are easy enough to remember and live by. I believe this accounts for the large number of Christians who claim to be among the faithful but have never joined a church. As society evolves and the accompanying technological advances shift us further and further away from death, I believe that religion will mute, but not drop, it's focus on the afterlife (after all, people will still get run over by vehicles, shot, fall from tall heights, slip in the bathtub, etc.,) and focus instead on living as "good" a life as we can and helping our consciences and easing our stresses. Religion will evolve, and that, I think, gives Charles Darwin the last laugh. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ------------------ I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.
Christian/truestory Jesus said believe in me and ye shall have everlasting life. My point is: If we can create everlasting life for ourselves why would we want Jesus? Take the afterlife out of the Christian equation and see if any worthwhile benefits remain. [This message has been edited by Wizard (edited January 29, 2000).]
Wizard, Just a couple of things... Spirituality is a continuum, whether we are within our physical body or not, walking with Jesus Christ has many magnificent benefits. The scenario which was painted above, relatively speaking, might prolong life by reducing the odds of death by what we currently know as "natural causes". However, it most likely cannot make death completely unavoidable. For example, among other things, there are fatal accidents in which the body becomes unsalvagable...
_____________________________________ My point is: If we can create everlasting life for ourselves why would we want Jesus? Take the afterlife out of the Christian equation and see if any worthwhile benefits remain. _______________________________________ A lot of christians would rather be dead than alive right now. What I mean is in heaven with Jesus. But we have to stay here and do God's will. Like preaching the Gospel and stuff so others can go to heaven too. Its our job. Theres not much of a choice between living here and living in heaven as far as I'm concerned. Check out something that Paul says, Phil 1:21-26 21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that through my being with you again your joy in Christ Jesus will overflow on account of me. As far as that wonder drug or whatever it is that helps slow down our aging process, what happens when a rock the size of kansas smashes into the earth? If we manage to escape all this stuff we have the sun turning into a read giant in the distant future which will kill everything. But I'm sure by then life would evolved so much we'd be exploring other galaxy's and stuff Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Either way the universe won't be able to support life forever. If it doesn't contract into a big crunch it will get extremely cold as it expands or slows forever into a crawl. Temperatures close to absolute zero can not support life. I don't care how advanced the poeple are. What it means is thats its impossible for someone to live forever in this universe. You will die one day, whether it 63 days after you were born or 630 years after. As others said, what about deseases, murder, etc etc? Humans used to live a lot longer anyways. Look at how old adam was when he died. The bible isn't the only source that tells us ancient people lived for long amounts of time I do not think. Some people attribute the decline in the length of a human life span to a supernova explosion. I guess radiation or something disupted our metabolism. Thats the theory... Grace and peace in Christ, Vinnie If sacrifice requires that all my kingdoms fall, I surrender all.
I suggest that when religion fades man will become more powerful than ever before. We will stop doubting facts proven by science and instead of attempting to reach god we will attempt to achieve a sort of euphoria on earth. In short when religion especially the christian one fade then and only then will we truly be the most powerful species on the planer.
I think that religion truly is under threat, but not from anti-aging research. A key premise necessary for afterlife is an idea of souls. It's the idea that there is something more to us than just our bodies (which obviously disintegrate in death.) What science will demonstrate, is that there is absolutely nothing more to us other than the matter religions hope to transcend. The entire human psyche, consciousness, and experience will eventually be completely laid out in terms of cellular biology and information theory. There will be nowhere left for the "soul" to hide -- and this anscient idea will finally be put to rest. Without it, the concept of afterlife will become meaningless. The only place for religions to endure, eventually, will be in supposing an ultimate origin or nature of all existence. Nothing more complete or applied will be available for religious explanation in the coming future. ------------------ I am; therefore I think.
