Free will and hunger

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Larry Johnson, Feb 8, 2013.

?

Do we have free will?

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. No

    2 vote(s)
    40.0%
  1. Larry Johnson Banned Banned

    Messages:
    17
    How can we have free will and experience hunger?

    All living things are coerced into doing things by hunger, hunger is painful and cannot be ignored. Even the most intelligent human will, when hungry, think only of acquiring food. Our actions are governed by hunger, thirst, tiredness, the need for sex etc. These are fundamental 'needs', such as those in Maslow's hierarchy of needs. All of these needs cause discomfort when not addressed. How can anyone experience these needs and still maintain that we have free will?

    Humans are capable of resisting these needs, such as resisting hunger when dieting. However this resistance is caused by a greater need, perhaps the need to be accepted or find a mate.

    I conclude that all human actions are caused by human needs. Therefore we have no free will, we are simply machines waiting for our need for 'x' to reach a certain level at which point we must address it.

    What are your thoughts on this theory?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
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  3. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,226
    Who prioritises the needs?
    Free will may only exist in the prioritising.
    We need to address the needs but can choose the order.

    But is it not enough to say "all human actions are caused", regardless of the cause?
    Does this not say enough to make the same point?

    But then what is free will?
    And why so many discussions on the subject?

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  5. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,862
    Free will is about choices. When you are hungry you decide what you want to eat, when you need clothing you choose what you want to wear, when you travel you choose where you want to go. I can point out many other things but I think you get my point. When you cannot choose is when you have no free will.
     
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  7. Larry Johnson Banned Banned

    Messages:
    17
    Have you ever needed a poop really badly? If you have a list of things to do and you need a poop would you be able to 'prioritize'? I think you would end up washing pants unless you obey your body. You are a slave to your body's needs, you avoid pain and seek pleasure.


    Do you make those choices freely? Or are they predisposition and learned responses? If I give you the choice of [your favorite food] or Brussels sprouts you would probably chose steak. Why not sprouts? You know it tastes bad, you may have bad memories from childhood etc. In the same way you have a preference for any two foods I offer you, although I may not know all the factors influencing your decision.

    Can we? I don't think a drug addict has a choice over what they prioritize, they will put heroin before food. Do people with tourettes syndrome have free will? All decisions you make have been made for you by prior events, they are all caused by things in the past which are themselves caused.
     
  8. rodereve Registered Member

    Messages:
    216
    You're talking about addiction and people with mental disorders to disprove free will? Addiction, which by definition is to have a compulsive need despite any adverse consequences, and Tourettes syndrome is classified by involuntary movements or utterances. But the fact that you have to choose exceptional examples of deviation from normal physiology or mental psychology to disprove free will, shows that free will would be a facet of normal physiology and psychology.
     
  9. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,201
    Rodereve, I would ask for your to indulgence in clarification of something. If I understand correctly, your position is that "free will" exists but is only accessible to (or achievable by) those possessing "normal physiology or mental psychology", right? The rest of us deviant folks are doomed to a deterministic sequence of unchangeable events...

    Quandary - if you agree with my assessment, please define normal physiology or mental psychology. If you disagree... Well, good luck with your underlying premise.

    Your reply is completely arbitrary and capricious and driven only by your free will... <-- potential sarcasm or pre-deterministic action determined from the beginning of time - depending on your viewpoint
     

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