Law of Threes

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Tiassa, Jan 13, 2000.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Hmmm ... questions for the pagans regarding the Law of Threes.

    Skye, if it brings no offense, I might wish to check in with you on this.

    The essence of the Threefold Law is that what one individual sows in life, that person shall reap ... thrice over.

    Is this to be applied practically through the Art? Such as--start an arson fire and you'll lose three of your own loved ones to the heat? Commit murder and maybe three close people to you will die? Personally, I've never accepted this because the idea then centers too much on those aspects of life which the practicioner finds valuable; that is, to punish the other persons in order to prove a cosmic point to the warlock. It seems that other people then become mere character actors in a bad drama--the red-shirted security officers on Star Trek, as such--as if the warlock in question has become the focal point of the universe's energies.

    On the other hand, Starhawk wrote, in "The Spiral Dance" that the Threefold Law can be seen in life patterns. Among her examples was the simple act of shoplifting. What are the three karmic points to return to the thief? Self-esteem--the thief knows that s/he apparently must steal, having no means of independent support. Paranoia--the sentiment which society adopts in the face of exponentially frequent crime is a sentiment which the thief must live amid. Tangible impact--after insurance has been reported, maybe any damages, and the product replaced, prices can go up, and should the thief ever find gainful support, said thief must accomodate those higher prices. True, it's simplistic, but hey--philosophy itself isn't supposed to be.

    I am more behind Starhawk's idea as far as this goes. Not only does it seem to apply more smoothly and with greater subtlety, but the context also reflects other notions in the world. Do unto others ...; The sins of the father ...; et cetera.

    Also note that I've kind of abused the warlock here; after all, the Law of Threes works toward the positive as well, but that's so much easier to identify: Happiness and security are just as contagious as low self-esteem and paranoia.

    But I'm wondering if other pagans would be so kind as to offer some observations or thoughts on the Law of Threes.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

    ------------------
    Take a side you say, it's black and gray. And all the hunters take the hunted merrily out to play. We are one, you say, but who are you? You're all too busy reaping in the things you never sown. And this beast must go on and on and on .... Nobody gives a damn. (Floater; "Beast")
     
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  3. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    Do atheists count as pagans, since we worship nothing? The Law of Threes. Hmmm. I grew up with an example of the Law regarding celebrity deaths. "They always die in groups of three." As time went on I noticed that they didn't die in groups of three, we only counted them in groups of three.

    What this has to do with the whole kit and kaboodle is this. Using the analogy of the shoplifter, the Law identifies three factors that are the hypothetical outcome of the crime; 1) lowered self-esteem, 2) paranoia, and 3) higher prices when the shoplifter finally gets around to acting civilized. These, however, are not the only outcomes. Looking further along the track, we see the higher prices result in less business which closes the store, putting more people out of work which pushes them into desperation if they can't find new jobs and possibly leads to one of the desperate souls breaking into the shoplifter's house and killing him for his money, which makes six more folds for you. Maybe we only count the folds up to three and disregard the rest.

    Everytime I hear of the Threefold Law, as it has been known, I always think of the old verse about the nail:

    For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
    For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
    For want of a horse the rider was lost.
    For want of a rider the battle was lost.
    For want of a battle the war was lost.
    For want of a war the kingdom was lost.
    All for the want of a horseshoe nail.

    While this is normally used to illustrate the importance of details, I offer it to show that you can take any karmic situation and follow it a lot farther than three.

    [This message has been edited by Oxygen (edited January 12, 2000).]
     
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  5. SkyeBlue Registered Senior Member

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    Tiassa-

    Great topic! Of course I'm not offended!

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    I'm kind of still up in the air about the 3-fold law, myself. I think maybe it should kind of be restated - the action will cause three PRIMARY results would be a little closer, I think. (?)

    Lesse, let me make another example as I think this through...let's say I'm a junkie, so I go over to my neighbor's car, and I rip off his stereo and pawn it downtown. So what are the results of my actions?

    1. Remorse - hopefully I'm not so far gone that I can't feel at least a little bad that I've done something so harmful to another person. I can't imagine having a lot of self respect in this situation.

    2. Retaliation - doubtless my neighbor knows or at least suspects who did it, what's he going to do to me to get back at me? Smash in my car windows? Rob my house? Report me to the police? All of these are definitely a return I would deserve!

    3. Unrest - now all the neighbors are probably going to be much more attentive to who is coming and going, and more paranoid about locking their cars up at night. This might seem small, but the vibes in that neighborhood will probably not be the same for a very long time, if ever. Plus, since I'm a junkie, I probably have a lot of people coming and going, which would make my now paranoid neighbors call the cops on me, more often than usual.

    What do you think? Does that hold water? There are also more effects I can imagine though - what about financial impact? What if my neighbor and I have the same insurance company, and now MY rates are going to go up because the area is considered to have a higher vandalism rating. What if I own my house and have to sell it, but prospective buyers talk to the neighbors and get the impression the area has a lot of crime? Granted, a junkie desperate enough to steal a car stereo probably doesn't own a home and might not even have car insurance, but you know what I mean.

    Perhaps if this was a real situation, only 3 of the consequences would have happened. Maybe my neighbor is more compassionate than most, and doesn't retaliate by attacking me or calling the cops. Maybe he tries to solve it person-to-person, and tries to assist me instead of just retaliating. Or maybe I WOULD be so far gone that I wouldn't feel bad about it. Hard to say. Maybe I can think of something in real life that I've done very right or very wrong and see what consequences I can find. Hard to do in your own life sometimes, though.

    I do have to say that three tends to be a "lucky" number for me, same with nine (which of course is 3 times 3). I DO tend to notice things happening in threes, but as Oxygen pointed out, maybe that's just a subjective thing. I seem to get sick in threes too - in a winter I'll get the flu 3 or 6 times, but not 2 or 4 or 5. Thankfully I haven't ever gotten it 9 times in a winter, whew!

    I do see three to be a common number in nature - leaves of three, let it be!? Nice warning, that. And of course, the God and Goddess are just part of the All - that's three (sort of). A lot of traditions see three aspects of the God and/or Goddess as well. There's the Holy Trinity in Christianity. So that number does seem to ring as a special number to a lot of people, so I think there's some kind of magick to it.

    Huh, not a very clear answer, huh Tiassa? Well, I gave it a shot!

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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Oxygen ....

    One may consider themselves what they wish, in the end. But if I appeared to be limiting myself to a certain definition of paganism, it's because that's where the law is most nakedly applied. But in reality, the question's open.

    You are exactly correct, though, that we only count the folds to three; once that religious idea is attained, the law becomes a loose, not-quite-anthropological description of an idea, a Cycle, which encompasses notions of the interrelationship of all things. Chaos mathematics, as my basest, barest understanding goes, seems to be something that I think certain branches of paganism might find wisdom in, and for this very reason.

    If I might also comment ... being able to extrapolate beyond the bare principle is one of the things which first gave me comfort on the pagan trail. That bit's as subjective as it comes, but I'd like to throw the notion in, anyway.

    But the miracle of the sprial dance, as well as many other images of paganism, play out in nature; as they bear no moral authority that I have been able to determine (except of course the idea of morality defined by life conditions), we have the potential to learn much when we make the translation from the religious summary to the natural detail that is the mechanics of--say--an eddy off the end of an oar, or the spinning of a maple "helicopter". DNA, orbital patterns ... all of it somehow lends to various ideas which described inherent nature before we had words for it--before we began to understand that we participated in any kind of relationship at all with the observed process.

    (I'll take a breath and hope that makes sense.)

    If you'll forgive the tacky pun, though, you've hit the Nail on the head with that verse. I've known it from Madeline L'Engle, in childhood, and later from a Todd Rundgren song. Never, though, have I directly applied the verse within any considerations of karmic theory ... though at one time, I suppose the process described my view of karma itself. I would not say the verse limited the idea I had, but that the scope of my ideas limited my ability to make the connection.

    As an interesting side note ... among academic pagans, there is a tendency to split philosophies by the terms "High Magick" and "Low Magick". The implications are not offensive to most pagans. Where magickal systems like revival Qabalism consider themselves "high", for their intricate detail and necessary processes, most shamanistic, tribal-originated religions are referred to as "low". This I have always interpreted as being an assumption of refinement. "Lower" philosophies, in this case, allow for the exact observation you've made regarding "Maybe we only count the folds up to three."

    Whoops ... I'm late. Thank you, though. I hope I'm still makeing sense

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    thanx,
    Tiassa

    ------------------
    Take a side you say, it's black and gray. And all the hunters take the hunted merrily out to play. We are one, you say, but who are you? You're all too busy reaping in the things you never sown. And this beast must go on and on and on .... Nobody gives a damn. (Floater; "Beast")
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,884
    SkyeBlue ....

    How can I possibly disagree with such an answer? And it's perfectly clear to me--at least, I think--because sometimes I think this kind of philosophical meandering is exactly what religous ideas are for. That is, religions serve as a base template, an organizational system by which we prioritize our moral process.

    But I would not leave it as something so cold and removed from the human spirit.

    There are reasons, though, why certain numbers seem important to us. Three makes a triangle. Three makes the Christian Trinity, as you noted. Three is the anthropological "family unit": two parents and an offspring.

    Have you ever heard of the Naples Arrangement? I'm not entirely sure of its history, but Crowley included it in the Book of Thoth. I'll dig it up and post it for you--it's a nifty play on numbers and spiritual evolution.

    And your "Junkie Theory"--as such--most definitely holds water. As much as the Pacific, when we get down to it. The ability of a person to recognize the effects of their actions seems to be the primary motivation of the Law of Threes. True, the ramifications of an action extend beyond simple enumeration. But the law is a method of addressing that very notion.

    I'm sorry about the winters, though

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    . If I might recommend straight peppermint-leaf tea for the sinuses and chest, or "Lemon Zinger" with a touch of honey for your chest and throat, and also for minor muscle tension ... well, it works for me about as well as Advil and OJ.

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    And if that's your best shot ... well, pick up a gun and the armed services will want to employ you. I'd say you hit the target, but I can't find it, leading me to believe you blew it away.

    Thank you for your honest insights ... those are the works of human beings that I would call holy.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

    ------------------
    Take a side you say, it's black and gray. And all the hunters take the hunted merrily out to play. We are one, you say, but who are you? You're all too busy reaping in the things you never sown. And this beast must go on and on and on .... Nobody gives a damn. (Floater; "Beast")
     
  9. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Golly! That sure was a long ride of thoughts. I need to stop and patch some holes in my canoe.

    So, the law of 3's is just another attempt to explain the world inside us?

    ------------------
    It's all very large.
     
  10. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    It's just a way of categorizing them. I guess 3 is the first of the 'complicated' numbers. Two people can settle a disagreement easily enough, but toss in a third, and one person isn't going to be sure that the other two aren't talking about him. To illustrate further the idea of 3 as being 'complicated, there is a tribe in Africa that only has three numbers in their counting system. One, two, and 'many'. That must be spectacular in economics!

    "I'll have a burger, fries, and a coke. How much do I owe you?"
    "Many dollars."

    PS: I'm in favor of "low magick" myself. I can't stand ritual.
     
  11. Bottica Registered Member

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    All religions are based on rituals, from low to high magik.

    What is commonly called "Low magik" ( which I totally disbeleive in the term as such ) has its rituals in the same way as the higher sense of magik.

    Being Pagan is beleiving in yourself.. The law of 3 would and does apply to all and all. It is the law of nature.

    Nothing to mind breaking about it all...

    Bottica
     
  12. SkyeBlue Registered Senior Member

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    260
    Oxygen -

    I rember my father telling me that crows can count up to three. They have 1,2,3 and many. I guess my grandfather (dad's dad) as a kid had the duty of scarecrow while their crops were ripening. To fool the crows, they would go under a "blind" (covered area). If 1, 2, or 3 men went in, the crows would be able to count how many came back out - once all of the men were gone, the crows would feast. If 4 went in, and only 3 came out, the crow would know that "many" went in, but 3 came out - the crow could tell at least one person was in there. But if 5 went in (many) and 4 came out (many), it would fool the crows and they'd come down to eat, and get caught in a net. (Grandma used to breed them as pets!) Not really relevant to the rule of threes, but interesting all the same.

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    Tiassa -

    No, I haven't heard of the Naples Arrangement. Post away!!

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  13. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    That is curious. I have a dog who can measure quantity. He whimpers at me when I'm nearing the last of my lunch. The SOB stands in front the couch while I'm eating. He doesn't make a sound until I'm down to the last bite of my sandwich. I assume that my analog dog is measuring my food...

    But that's another story.

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    It's all very large.
     
  14. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    Bowser,

    Your dog sounds very patient... do you share your food with him? If not, perhaps he's waiting to see if you will "voluntarily" share your food with him, who he senses to be your best friend... when your food is almost gone, your dog reminds you that you have not yet shared with him...???
     
  15. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Of course, I share my home and lunch with my favorite mongrel. The point is he's aware of the quantity that I hold in my hand. He knows that if I take the last bite, there is no more to be had. Judging from the hypnotic stare and statue-like stance, he is more focused mentally during meal time then at any other time of the day.

    It is just a humorous observation that my dog is aware of my food as a whole, and the last fraction of the whole.

    -----------------------------------------
    Check in later when my dog resolves the lingering questions surrounding the theory of Quantum Foam--all for the possibility of getting the whole sandwich.
     

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