Hello, Yes I know that someone has already touched that matter, but I think that It should be approached from different perspective. So Iraqis haven’t got such a weapons for sure – why am I so sure – because they were presented as a thread for world because they were presented as ready for use these weapons against other nations. Iraqis are under great thread from US army now and if they haven’t used wmd weapons till now they simply doesn’t have them. OK let’s see what the consequences are comes from such fact – Iraqis told true about wmd: 1. US government broke it’s own constitution – started the war against independent country without thread for national US safety. 2. US government broke international law – attacking independent country against the willingness of majority in UN council 3. US government is responsible for the death of several innocent people in other that US country 4. US government unbalanced the international, political situation on such a hot region like middle east during serious world-wide economical crisis what can brink a very serious consequences for whole mankind. Taking for consideration these 4 items, who tells me that Bush is not very different than Hitler?
The war is only three days old. There could be a couple of reasons haven't been used to date. 1, if reports are true that Saddam was injured, maybe there is nobody giving the order and no commanders at lower levels want to initiate the use of chemical weapons on there own, or 2, maybe those commanders are afraid to use them because of fear of retaliation by the US. There have certainly been enough psy-ops warnings of repercussion if they are used. Advancing troops have found new gas masks in abandoned trenches, so that at least gives one pause as to why they have them. But we'll no more as this unfolds.
Chris63, I'm sure that the US military will eventually find WMD in Iraq, even if they have to put the WMD's there themselves. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! As for Bush being like Hitler, I partly agree. For the last two years that Bush was in office, I have not seen one action by him that demonstrates that he has a code of ethics. It appears that if he thinks he can get away with something, he will do it regardless of whether it is morally wrong. But then again, should anyone expect anything differently from Bush? He was raised in a rich family having everything handed to him on a silver platter. His whole life has been centered around himself, never doing anything to help anyone else. If you don't believe me, look at his history. I think that Americans got what they deserved by electing Bush (even though he didn't get the majority of the votes). It's just too bad that the rest of the world must be punished for the actions of American voters. Tom
The US finding WMD when it's all over won't solve anything. Those that are either for or not overly concerned about this war will believe he always had them, and a lot of those who were against it will believe the US "put them there themselves". The problem with having a society in which information is easily accessible is that the information is either put there for a purpose or, even if it is factual, no one believes it anyway. As an afterthought, comparing Bush to Hitler is ridiculous. They're not even in the same league.
It makes you wonder... Nuclear Weapons Of all the world's governments only the United States of America has used atomic weapons in anger. On two occasions we have used them against a civilian population. A few years later the American General Douglas MacArthur petitioned President Truman to authorise the use of nuclear weapons against China and North Korea. This time Truman balked from fear that the Soviets would retaliate with their own atomic weapons. The world probably came closest to nuclear holocaust during the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis (If GWB had been president then instead of JFK, I doubt I would today be writing this). Chemical Weapons Iraq has had chemical weapons since the 1980's. Iraq used these weapons against the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war. No protest of this action was made by the United States. In 1988 Hussein used poison gas to kill 5,000 civilians in the Kurdish town of Halabja. Again, the US raised no protest at that time. The current US administration draws a stark contrast between peaceloving nations such as ourselves, and this rogue regime that would dare to drop poison on civilians. Be mindful, however, that from 1961 to 1971 the United States dropped some 11 million gallons of the infamous Agent Orange on the Vietnamese countryside. Vietnam continues to suffer from this chemical deluge some 30 years later. There are no reliable causal estimates of how many civilian deaths and birth defects stemmed from this action. Judging from the suffering of our own veterans exposed to this poison one is tempted to think the Vietnamese must have suffered most cruelly from it. (figures from http://www.landscaper.net/agent2.htm) Polls recently conducted outside the United States indicate that a substantial proportion of the world's population believes that GWB is more a threat to world peace than is Hussein. The US, with 6% of the world's population, spends 50% of the world's annual military budget. Is it unreasonable to distrust a country that maintains a uniquely vast military machine and uses it so freely despite the protests of the majority of the world's population? GWB is engaged in a high-stakes poker game in which the chips represent the future of the human species. Am I alone in thinking it madness that the world should have placed the trust for its survival into the hands of one George W. Bush? Bush claimed to invade Iraq because of the "very real threat" that Hussein would use his "weapons of mass destruction" against Americans. Hussein is clearly a monster; but a monster with a track-record of not using his chemical weapons (he has no nuclear weapons) against Americans even when directly attacked by us (as he was in the 1991 Gulf War). How many of you believe that North Korea's Kim Jong-il would similarly resist using his weapons of mass destruction if he were invaded? Bush exudes confidence that his diplomacy can resolve the crisis between him and North Korea. I am absolutely terrified to think that our lives depend on this same bull-in-a-china shop "diplomacy" that has brought us to war with Iraq, and eye-to-eye with North Korea. If all that stands between war and peace with North Korea is George W. Bush's finely honed diplomatic skills, the West Coast of America had better get busy digging bomb shelters. Michael
"As an afterthought, comparing Bush to Hitler is ridiculous. They're not even in the same league." That is true. Bush has far more destructive power in his control and a more carefully hidden agenda.
It's important to note that Bush is not promoting all out genocide. If Hitler had not done this he would not have been permantely demonized by the world.
No! Good post Orthoganal! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! On the case of Hitler-Bush metamorphosis I don't think it's quite happened yet, but give the man enough power and control then I'm sure it would begin to dawn. However the U.S. have taken measures against this: The President can only stay in office for so long.
Let us hope America wakes up and exercises informed democracy in time: “It is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” -Hermann Goering
Yes, I should be ashamed for dredging it up again. But it has a certain chilling resonance these days.
Well, I admit you do deliver it with a certain Shakesperean flourish.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Well, CNN just said earlier today that we have captured what we think is a chemical weapons manufacturing plant. That would be a good place to look for your WMDs.
Yes, that can be a chemical factory - but the product of this factory could become a WMD when it is prepared to use against people. I can show you the real factory producting fosgen in Poland - Is it WMD factory?? Of cource not, - fosgen is used as component in the production of other chemical based products like shampoons or plasctics for example. This is a factory like in every other country in the world. So if your searching the WMD factories you can find them everywhere in the world. I have to ask again - Have Iraqis used chemicals against US army? NO?? So where are their WMD??
> YES apparently a camouflaged chemical factory is said to be found. NO chemical warheads and depots of nervegas etc. have not been found/encountered YET BUT we gotta realize that this war, being televised, is for a great extend about information warfare. If you watch Foxnews or read the Jerusalem Post, the findings of a chemical factory gets presented in the lines of : "PROOF OF WMD!!!" (in caps and with exclamation marks) It's a war about public opinion. The American government would loose a lot of credibillity if no WMD are found/used against them. My personal guestimate is that Saddam does have some WMD, but that he will not use them until he must make a last stand in Baghdad (this way he will be able to cast doubt about u.s.a government motives) in holland we say we are watching the war through a straw at a kingsize tv. Both iraqi and usa governemt try to make sure that we will only see the pieces that they want us to see. For instance: the iraqis said that allmost 200 civilians died during the bombardments of Basra, that would be 4 times as much as the claimed deathtoll of the heavy bombardments of Baghdad, so from a statistical point of view this sounds somewhat unlikely/fabricated. For instance: the iraqis said they have captured american POW, the usa government initially responds: ALL SOLDIERS ARE ACCOUNTED FOR WE HAVE NO REPORTS OF PEOPLE MISSING. Only after video-tape of the POW is released by Al-Jahzeera, the usa government is FORCED to prepare the public for some bad news. First we hear: "we are unaware of the whereabouts of less than 10 soldiers". Shortly thereafter the videotape of the POW is shown on western media as well and the news becomes official...
You also have to bear in mind that even our own security forces are playing this down now because they sense another major embarasment ahead. This is situated so far north in Iraq its in an area barely or not even under Saddams Control making it a very unlikely spot for such a factory, Also. "Group Capt. Al Lockwood at Central Command in Qatar said he had heard about the factory "only from open source reporting" -- probably meaning media reports" - yet again American Intel (oxymoron?) have grabbed on press rumors and unconfirmed facts to present them as facts to the public knowing the imediate effect is what they will want and they can put in a small disclaimer later or play it down or better yet, come up with bigger bs to distract attention. "He said the United Nations "would seem to be the natural choice" for an independent opinion to verify this." "However, Washington and London say their forces have so far not found any evidence of chemical or biological weapons and none of the missiles fired by Iraq have been Scuds, despite initial reports to the contrary." So far the Americans have gone through the tactic of releasing Big news about iraq then making small disclaimers saying they were wrong or theres some doubt, this is a old and dirty trick of trying to fool public opinion and later say, well, actually we didnt lie. 1) Iraq Fired illegal Scuds - Nope not a single one actually. 2) Iraq has launched Chemical weapons - Nope not a single chemical attack though several of our press are complaining that they are being run through the chemical attack Every single time a missile or warning of a missile comes in, whilst they now its better safe than sorry it seems to be more of a "scare them into reporting chemical attacks when there arent any" thing thats getting very old very fast. 3) Iraq displaying POW'S is against the Geneva convention - This is sick of them to get riled up and protest about this, They have shown no respect for POW'S, true they asked for censorship of faces in Afghanistan of POW'S but then most of them weren't POW's, they just recllassified them Illegal combatants and we all know about that, Also anyone who has seen the Documentary by Jamie Doran on Afghanistan showing US Forces executing Tied and blindfolded POW'S..... 4) Iraq Set fire to 30 Oil Fields - They were later forced to down this to only 7, and even now Iraq says they have lit no Oil Feilds just Trenches full of oil around the city to Protect it from bombs, spy sats and Planes, this has already caused one fatal helicopter crash so it's working. 5) Iraqi's are dressing as civillians - First the press report 2 unarmed civillians dead in the street as they went in with the US Troops, by that same afternoon those 2 unarmed civillians are now Iraqi soldiers dressed as civillians. 6) Iraqi soldiers are pretending to surrender then opening fire on US Troops - No proof, and i think the idea of letting surendered troops advance with guns is a bit stupid, if anyones seen the violence (for good reason) with which any trooper will take care of any POW or surrendering soldier will rule that out. 7) Obviously despite the massive bombing etc America are disputing civillian deaths, thats to be expected, we still dont have an official estimate from the first gulf war including Humanitarian casualties and from DU etc. I'm sure there are many more but its half 5 and im going home so I'll leave you to refute my claims, defend them from either side or add to them.
I don't know if Iraq has WMD or not but do you really think the U.S. forces have looking for those as their goal right now?!?
Whether or not they find weapons or agents in this factory is inconsequential. This factory is enough to put Iraq in material breach of UNSC Resolutions 687 and 1441, if not many more. I guess it's a little late to debate this now but if anybody's curious: This exact paragraph is echoed in UNSC Resolution 1441, in para. 5 of that document, and you can check it out from the link below if you're curious. So, the existence of this facility, even without the presence of actual agents, means Iraq is (and has been) in material breech of the Gulf War cease fire agreement. They're also in violation of UNSC resolution 1441, because 1441 required disclosure of every system, facility, etc. in Iraq's arsenal: The omission of this facility from their initial 12,000+ page report in January puts Iraq in material breach of 1441. UN Resolution 687 UN Resolution 1441
and if you are in material breach, you will face "serious consequences". this ambiguity is precisely why there has been so much confusion over at the un. the warriors maintain it authorizes the use of military force while the rest maintain that it does not.
