The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. - Mark Twain Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let me label you as they may. - Mark Twain When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and the purity of its heart. - Ralph Waldo Emerson The heights of popularity and patriotism are still the beaten road to power and tyranny; flattery to treachery; standing armies to arbitrary government; and the glory of God to the temporal interest of the clergy. - David Hume Patriotism ruins history. - Goethe Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it. - George Bernard Shaw Patriotism ... is a superstition artificially created and maintained through a network of lies and falsehoods; a superstition that robs man of his self-respect and dignity, and increases his arrogance and conceit. - Emma Goldman Nationalism is the measles of mankind. - Albert Einstein In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us. - Thich Nhat Hanh Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. - Samuel Johnson Men in authority will always think that criticism of their policies is dangerous. They will always equate their policies with patriotism, and find criticism subversive. - Henry Steele Commager Man is the only Patriot. He sets himself apart in his own country, under his own flag, and sneers at the other nations, and keeps multitudinous uniformed assassins on hand at heavy expense to grab slices of other people's countries, and keep them from grabbing slices of his. And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood of his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" -- with his mouth. - Mark Twain ...majority Patriotism is the customary Patriotism. - Mark Twain [Patriotism] ... is a word which always commemorates a robbery. There isn't a foot of land in the world which doesn't represent the ousting and re-ousting of a long line of successive "owners" who each in turn, as "patriots" with proud swelling hearts defended it against the next gang of "robbers" who came to steal it and did -- and became swelling-hearted patriots in their turn. - Mark Twain The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice -- and always has been. - Mark Twain We teach them to take their patriotism at second-hand; to shout with the largest crowd without examining into the right or wrong of the matter -- exactly as boys under monarchies are taught and have always been taught. We teach them to regard as traitors, and hold in aversion and contempt, such as do not shout with the crowd, and so here in our democracy we are cheering a thing which of all things is most foreign to it and out of place -- the delivery of our political conscience into somebody else's keeping. This is patriotism on the Russian plan. - Mark Twain You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race. - George Bernard Shaw Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. "Patriotism" is its cult. It should hardly be necessary to say, that by "patriotism" I mean that attitude which puts the own nation above humanity, above the principles of truth and justice; not the loving interest in one's own nation, which is the concern with the nation's spiritual as much as with its material welfare -- never with its power over other nations. Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one's country which is not part of one's love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship. - Erich Fromm In modern war, one individual can cause the destruction of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. He could do so by pushing a button; he may not feel the emotional impact of what he is doing, since he does not see, does not know the people whom he kills; it is almost as if his act of pushing the button and their death had no real connection. The same man would probably be incapable of even slapping, not to speak of killing, a helpless person. In the latter case, the concrete situation arouses in him a conscience reaction common to all normal men; in the former, there is no such reaction, because the act and his object are alienated from the doer, his act is not his any more, but has, so to speak, a life and a responsibility of its own. - Erich Fromm --- The Mark Twain quotes were taken from: http://www.twainquotes.com/Patriotism.html The others were found on several large quotations websites.
Good quotes. What do people think makes someone patriotic? It seems to me that patriotism is just fundementalism directed at a government instead of a religion. Those who call themselves patriots as they destroy everything the US supposedly stood for while waving the flag seem to be worshipping the US as a symbol, that is good for its own sake.
JPS - Goldman on patriotism Patriotism: A Menace to Liberty, by Emma Goldman. This is the source of the Goldman quote from the topic post, it comes from about 1911. JPS, regarding your question about what makes a person patriotic ... well, it's a matter of degrees. Some would say, "love of country", to which one or another might say, in the Lisa Simpson fashion, "What does that even mean?" Ms. Goldman took a decent crack at it: These are, in fact, the paragraphs which follow the quotation from the topic post. And it's one of those occasions where, for me, someone has said it well enough. This is the fundamental point upon which I define patriotism. I think it is, in fact, merely a godless form of religion, with the State serving as deity. And while no State is all-seeing or all-powerful, it's what the politicians generally strive for. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! :m:, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
last memorial day I was visiting the small town in the midwest were I spent my formative years. At 10:00 AM a group of veterans ranging in age from 35 to 85 assembled on main street in full uniform, shouldered their parade rifles and marched to the local cemetery. There is a small grassy circular area in the cemetary with a flag pole in the center. Surrounding that circle are the graves of all the soldiers from my community who have died in combat since the Civil war. This group of veterans, one of whom survived the Battaan Death March, Raised the flag that they so dearly cherished and saluted. They then chambered rounds and fired a volley of three shots, after which one old soldier raised his bugle and played taps. I stood there at the grave of my oldest brother who was killed in action in Korea in 1952, and I openly wept. You can tear this post apart all you wish, but so help me God, there are patriots and there are Cowards. And you people represent the most snide group of cowards I have ever witnessed.
What's your issue? Nobody said there aren't patriots. We're merely questioning the value of them in the larger picture, for it is patriots of each country who consent to come together in warfare in the first place. My heart is with the conscripts, but I remain neutral toward volunteers. But patriotism is as much a crutch for one's feelings as any other religion. And if it's cowardice to simply not follow blindly, hey, then the cowards get to skip out at Nuremberg. And that would be a first. :m:, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
"...And you people represent the most snide group of cowards I have ever witnessed" Bravery has nothing to do with being American- that is a human trait available anywhere. Cowardliness is not to have survived a war, or to criticise an unjust war. I volunteered to give my life for my country. I would still do so if we were threatened. Presently, we are being confused and torn apart because as a nation we don't understand the conflict we are entering in, specifically that America's security and world standing will not be enhanced on any traditional battlefield in this case of ostensible counterterrorism and counterproliferation. Dying requires no bravery, and we all face it. Dying to soon, and causing others to die too soon, requires better justification than our government has given. This war is far more questionable than Korean War 1 was. Sometimes when the war drums are at their loudest, it takes the more bravery to admit when war is counterproductive, than even to lay down your life in combat. At times like this, I think such dissent is also highly patriotic.
Tiassa, you are seriously getting patriotism and nationalism confused. I guess Ms. Goldman got confused too. Patriotism: Love of country; devotion to the welfare of one's country; the virtues and actions of a patriot; the passion which inspires one to serve one's country. --Berkley Nationalism: the conviction that the culture and interests of your nation are superior to those of any other nation. The Founding Fathers were patriots. Hitler was a nationalist. You are neither.
In that case, there are far to many nationalists, and very few who are patriotic and not nationalist.
This is one of those occasions it is actually useful to point out that the virtues and actions of a patriot did not necessarily live up to the standards: they owned slaves. Sure, it was a matter of education, but that shows the faults of the virtues. Besides, even considering that, there is a far cry between George Washington and George W. Bush. The virtues should almost always be questioned, and it should be carefully considered whether or not those alleged virtues are being applied appropriately. :m:, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
You don't have to be perfect to be a patriot, but at least these people tried. I've heard several times that a few of the Founding Fathers wanted to liberate the slaves, but that's beside the point. The point is that these patriots did all they could to improve our country, and all of us Americans can thank them for that. What I'm trying to show is that patriotism is not the root of evil, as you seem to portray it as. Imagine the world without the ideals and government that the Founding Fathers brought. Perhaps an American dictatorship? A world controlled by European powers or even German power? I can assure you that at the very least, the freedoms and equality expressed in our Constitution would not be as widespread. Imagine if everyone in the world was truly a patriot. The world would be a better place, and their populations would continually be working to make the country better and more self-sufficient. Patriotism(and nationalism) is the fuel that a country runs on. Remember - patriotism is doing what's best for your country, not necessarily your government.
Patriotism is fine by me if you follow that definition. I can respect it even if I view loving one arbitrarily established national boundary over another due to the location you were born as rather irrational. My problem is when people calling themselves patriots wrap themselves in the flag and declare that in order to protect our country we must essentially get rid of all the things that our country was supposedly founded on.
What does cowardice have to do with this issue? Are you trying to make a point or is this just an unfounded personal attack on those you disagree with?
Splitting hairs That's beside the point. The virtues were taken askew and not examined properly. Look, I am an American, a citizen of the United States of America. I am protected by the Constitution of the United States of America. But in order to receive this protection in the United States of America, I must first be a human being. And despite the Constitution, despite my best efforts at conformity and lock-step bandwagoning, I must necessarily be a human being first. Of course I have a natural interest in the US winning all its wars and getting its way, but I also know that prosperity comes when people stop fighting. What I want I want for all humankind. National boundaries are useless insofar as they cause more trouble than they're worth. Patriotism is necessarily bound to a nation, else it be called something else. We send our troops for questionable reasons; we create the necessity of military force; veterans of past wars are among the homeless; at what point does one consider the so-called virtues at stake? What, pray tell, does that have to do with patriotism? Better yet: One world, where nobody has to bother with fPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!cking patriotism. Careful now. I generally believe that, but the conservative backlash during the Clinton administration seemed so broad as to be shocking. Specifically, I generally believe that patriotism is about doing what's best for the country; I ... generally ... applaud the "terrorist" John Brown. Emma Goldman somehow failed to murder a mining executive; apparently her heart wasn't in it. But in the wake of Oklahoma City and anti-Clinton Waco-related conspiracy theories, many über-conservative militia queens taking their moment in the spotlight made the very same point about patriotism. Theoretically, I feel patriotic for standing up for a more virtuous notion of the United States. But the whole thing makes me sick, so I try not to care. Patriotism is as individual as God, and equally prone to violence. Economic security and moral satisfaction form the fuel of any nation. Patriotism just annoys the neighbors. "Sleep And Eats rule ought-three!" (That's one of those jokes that, if you get it, is both funny and relevant at once; if you don't get it, it doesn't even begin to make sense.) I love how everyone we disagree with is "nationalist", and all of our friends are "patriots". :m:, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
mmmm i am in such good company ps: justice, its ok to apologize Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
