This subject proposes many possible views. That one has to think things they've never had to consider, is only natural considering the type of threat it is. People, we American's aren't trying to go into Iraq and lay waist to the entire nation. That is not our objective. It is our intention to remove Hussein's regime, through force simply because he won't leave otherwise, from power. It is a political coup caused by an outside party. If you continue on believing that the big mean American's are just planning on taking over the world, then perhaps you should consider the fact of, Why did we wait so long to start now? What we are trying to infect the world with, is the virus that is simple Civil Liberty. Freedom is the cancer we want the whole world to experience. If you are still living under your parents roof, then the true impact of these freedoms are not felt. Certainly I am not denying the fact that you can be intellegent enough to understand this sort of concept, but I am saying that if you are still a child, then this subject only bothers you in the sense of general feelings. Sorrow, fear, worry, perhaps even dread of what is to come, these are natural feelings considering the situation. All the same however, it is feelings that you only experience. If you had your freedoms removed, if you woke every morning with the knowledge that your life was in jeapordy simply because of where you lived and the person who ruled your nation, was so corrupted by his power that he believed that fear was the greatest freedom to feed his subjects, then this war would have a greater purpose to you. I do not speak as one who simply lives in my own country(USA). I have visited many parts of the world. Kuwait, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Japan, China, Korea, Russia, France, England, Ireland, Somalia, Cuba...etc. This list is just a few of the places I've seen with my own eyes. I have witnessed firsthand the effects of a person's basic human rights removed. This fed me with the desire, to see more of the world share in the US's understanding of Freedom. I assure you that some of Iraq's military personelle will fight. The greatest portion of it will do as they did during the Persian Gulf War though. They will throw up their hands and surrender upon catching sight of our advance. The people who are not willing to stand against Hussein, are fearful of what he will do, not just to them personally, but to their entire family and friends. Peace is an impossiblity on its own. Conflict is the only way to bring a nation freedom, when they've never been allowed to experience it. It would be a grand thing to see a completely Utopian society, for some people. I am not certain such a world would thrive successfully. Utopia always leads to a state of Euphoria. WHy? because there is nothing left to fear. Fear is one of the greatest builders of Freedom. Ahh well.... now I just ramble. My point in its simplicity, the effect of inaction far out weighs the effects of action taken. Deny that there is a threat to everyone, if that makes you feel safe. The cold-hearted reality is this.... if we, the entire world, continue to see this as nothing more than a political war, then we are all being ignorantly blind to the real danger. Human Annhiliation is now a possibility. Extinction is now in the capable hands of anyone with the launch button. Hmph.... nah there's no danger.
If uncle Sadam have any of the bombs that he is suposedly hidding, war will be a good chance to show them to Bush...
You know, Saddam recently said that if Iraq were attacked he would "bring war wherever there is land, sea, or air" but then denied again that he has any weapons of mass destruction. How screwy is that. Nice try, Saddam. You're takin' the fall.
Agamemnon - if Sadam happens to be your uncle, then you must truly be proud. He's killed or had killed, how many Iraqi people to maintain his position of power? Heh, yes continue to forget the past, so that you can be doomed to repeat it's lessons. Not a single nation, who has ever brought War to the US has been successful. Our history is filled with conflict, reconstruction, and prosperity. The British learned that we will resolve at all costs to maintain our Freedom. The Mexicans learned that even a state(Texas) within our Union that wishes to be recognized as a seperate entity will be protected at all costs. Japan learned that attacking even a remote island base, which housed nearly the entire US Naval Fleet, would not stop a retalliation, or break the US's will to defend itself. We had hoped that Mr. Hussein would have learned after the Persian Gulf War, that the US will defend any nation that is to be held under tyranny. Perhaps it is time we remind the world, what role the US has descided to play in diplomacy. If we must do this alone, so be it. The world needs a protector, who is willing to face all odds and adversities. Stand against us if you must, stand with us if you have enough belief in Freedom to do so. I will tell you this, if it comes down to two men left on the battlefield, the last one standing will be the one who wants Freedom for all, the most.
Ok jLabrec, You guys are really the "saviors of the world", if your objectives was so noble, then the entire world should be with you, don't you think? And there is a good amount of people that does'nt think that the best way to freedom is goint into a war... And if it's really something with saddam, if he in person are the true enemy, would'nt be much cheaper to send a small tacticall team and take the bastard down?
When was the majority right about anything before? It is actually a good way of figuring out what is right, just go with the opposite of what most people are saying, in this case, it meant invading iraq because the majority of people were saying don't. Did someone say "no nukes"?.... My point is people are stupid, they don't know whats good for them. They aren't against this war for any good logical reason, they're against it because it will make them sad if people die. Clearly that shouldn't be a deciding factor.
Good point agamemnon. Here's a question for you. What do you suggest is the best way to reach Freedom. I can tell you what I've learned of history. Not a single nation, people, race, or religion ever achieved true Freedom without refraining from conflict. But.... I'll be interested to hear your idea on how to achieve Freedom. As to why there are only 35 other countries behind us, well... this wasn't the case back during Pres. Clinton's time in office. When Saddam took over Kuwait, the bulk of the world was with us on stopping him. Now.... well now I fear that most of the world is playing naieve to reality.
The war? I'd say that countries like the one's that America are going to War with are quite primal and possibly ignorant in their views of the world and in the way they address their problems: one's of barren landscapesand the subsequent problems. They have been allowed to live in their own fashion for an indefinite amount of time, time which could still be ticking away however what they did on September the Eleventh almost goes beyond comprehension. They attacked America because the Middle-East's knowledge is strictly limited and they have no wish to progress or learn about the world. Countries such as this favour taking what has been given without even examining what it is. But they were allowed to follow their own path and eventually a new land was found and a new system was set up where by the citizens were free. Free to believe what they wanted to believe and free to disbelieve what they wanted to disbelieve. This is the way it should have been! It was the way it was. The land of the Free allowed anyone who wanted to be free into their country and allowed others even outside of the country to be free also. However the Primitive cultures attacked the freedom. They tried to take it away. They want it taken away, though there isn't much they can do about it. While they were allowed their own freedom they chose to attack while a nations back was turned. I would have to say that this must fundamentally be a science-religion war! While I believe that America, and the west, are trying to set the Iraqi people free, they will only do this to set in place their own system which is by no means flawless and by doing so will be taking the country as their own. With their own system in place in another country Capitalism will just grow and grow. On a smaller note wasn't it 'Afghanistan' who did what they did on September the Eleventh?? Why are they going for Iraq? While I don't think this is primarily about oil It wouldn't surprise me to learn that with 'Democracy' (which doesn't work) and Capitalism in place America will thrive even more.
It was not Afghanistan, more so as it was a terrorist organization working from within. Our going after Saddam is for a reason in connection to terror itself. This man opitomises terror, in the sense that he willingly let loose weapons of mass destruction in his own country. He put to death, any of his own people who did not support his regime. He openly supports any terrorist organization that is attempting to harm the US and its American citizens, both here and abroad. It is our objective to remove him and his regime from power to prevent further danger to both the US and the rest of the world. This war works much like our continued war on the drug cartels. If you put an end to the producer, the trouble essentially stops. Indeed there will be continued uprisings of smaller manufacturers(Saddam supporters), it will take minimal effort after the producer's(Saddam) removal to shut those organizations down. Pay close attention to the News, as per CNN or MSNBC, as they refrain from much speculation as other stations do. If you've been watching and listening, we are attempting to refrain from as much conflict as possible. If we can overthrow Saddam's regime without casualties, outstanding. We continue to bombard their radio and tv stations with messages, insisting that they surrender. As for ground forces, we will not fire unless are fired upon. The bulk of our training is based around the Rules of Engagement.
What was needed was for the un to show some balls and concern for humanity. Instead it is the us. The un can be cremated now for all it matters.
Well, hmm, the war in Iraq has as much to do with oil as a coming war with North Korea would have to do with rice... We gotta have our rice!!!!! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
haha well said. Hey whats the deal with the peace sign up in the corner of this site? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I know its not my place to say but I don't like it one bit, I think it should have a streak through it, you know like a 'no smoking' sign? only it would be a 'no peace' signPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! hehe that would kick ass.
Here ye hear ye! God bless the united states, and our great president in his effort to make the world a better place for me and you to live in. I anticipate the day I am armed with heavy artillery to go off into the battlefeild, and defened my great nation by shooting the evil arabs hundreds of miles away that wish to defile my sacred land.
Is this true though? I question how much of it is propaganda. But don't you think the west generally, with the freedom that it had in the beginning and the freedom it has now, tries (and tried) to set up a 'idealistic state' without too much of an open mind to what is needed. It seems that the heads of the ruling classes get together and decide what they think would be the best way to run a country and while they search for a Utopia, people lose their liberties or are generally marginalised. This is true for whole countries too whom the civilised nations take precendence over, however what allows them to do this has been the hard work and quest for truth that has gone before. I have heard the term 'Laissez-faire' banded around quite a bit. My understanding of this is to allow nations to funtion (which includes trade) with no government intervention. I also believe that this idea has never been fully instated before, anywhere! Supply and demand is a basic concept which I'm sure most can understand - If there is no demand for something thern there becomes no supply. Isn't this true for Drugs?! 'The War on Drugs' may be being lost because the state tries to intervene and make what isn't natural. Supply and Demand. This could be said to be true for other areas to and while murder etc may be natural phenomena's, which someone wrote, intervention at this level must be needed. It seems that what is happening is that the rich and powerful, even gluttonous, spend their lives playing with people lives. Tinkering with 'systems' etc and trying to make people live how they think they should live. While I'm sure on the whole they are trying to do good, a lot seems to be run by greed. It is probably true that the quality of life in the west is greater but is it at the price of other countries? It is doubtable because these were new lands where ideals and new philosophies could be practiced. However in some cases admission should be granted. How can the leaders hope to fight what is only natural?? Could it be that the west is scared of 'Laissez-faire' because their production capabilities are inferior to the countries who can produce large amounts of crop produce or oil? Charles Fleming: "Ojection your Honour. Conjecture!" Judge: "Sustained! Mr Fleming you will keep your questions to points of fact and not of opinion." Charles Fleming: "Yes your honour." I like it! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
You Can't Honestly believe America is the world's Savior Such BULLSHIT!!! Americans concerned about the world...Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Which America are you talking about? Rwanda, my favorite example of America's concern for humanity. 800,000 natives were systematically slaughtered by rival extremetist wth knives (machetes)....FUCKING knives. Probaly 1 in fifty had a gun. 1995. Where was America then? We only engage in conflicts with economic importance, otherwise we would be spending 90% of or miltiary resources overseas. We care about money. And if we can help some people while were at it then we can make it LOOK like its not about money.
whoa.... easy there mrhero. see you made a mistake in your post. you used the term we, which leads me to believe that you are an American, well at least by location. And here, ladies and gentlemen, in lies the faults greatest to to the USA, people living in the country who continue to complain about its polocies and ideals. Yet, they continue to live in the USA. Hmmm.... If I'm not mistaken the borders of the US have never been closed. Perhaps you should go visit or live in a few of these other countries. Know what it looks and feels like before you talk about it. See how much it affects you, to have a starved little 3 - 4 year old child come up to you and your buddies, "the guys in the green suits," as they called us, looking for food. Feel the impact of the orders, "stand your ground," while some total stranger on the other side of the fence spits in your eye. How about knowing what its like, to be at a field site, visible in all directions from 15 miles out, to have this position take fire, during what you thought and were told was Peace time. Then call back to your command, only to have them say, "do not return fire until casualties are taken." Here is the greatest piece of advice I can give, and forgive me for losing my temper, but I think I have a right to. Why not try to see what its like to have the people living under the protection of you and your fellow soldiers, airmen, and sailors, talk about your country, its governent, its ideals, its basic Freedoms like they don't mean....Shit!!! See how it impacts you to come back from a tactical combat situation, only to have people protesting that what you did was wrong; but all the while knowing if you hadn't then they may have died. Sometimes the hardest part about being in the military, is knowing how and when to bite your tongue. If the USA, It's Flag, It's Declaration of Independence, It's Bill of Rights, It's Freedoms and Liberties mean nothing to you, then GET THE FUCK OUT!!!!! Cause someone else will be ecstatic to take your place. The Price of Blood paid for your ignorance and the Freedom of Speech you continue to hold so dear, shows no bit of remorse or membrance, or honor to those who died to give you those rights. Rwanda... yes 800,000 people slaughterd. Perhaps what you don't know, and I'll probably go to jail for mentioning, is that we had two Special Forces units on location in that region. It is due to a hidden act of US military that the number didn't grow beyond that. We keep great tabs on hostility throughout the world. In my understanding of our military operations, we are always in some sort of Police Action. There are many operations that never make the media coverage. In fact, Black Ops occur all the time unknown to even the highest ranks in the service. I will agree that we are probably not the saviours of the world. I only do so, because saving the world from its people is a job for every nation. Unfortunately, it all to often seems, like only the US takes this task seriously. Why not spread Capitalism? Why not spread Free Enterprise system? Why not spread the ideals of Freedom for all: religions, races, creeds, ideals...etc? What real harm can it do, to a planet full of people bent on destroying themselves?
I agree! I see the tanks and A.P.C's (Armoured Personnel Carriers) rolling across Iraq and it must be costing. The war as a whole must cost a bomb ( Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ). I think economics do have a lot to do with it but I don't think it is just about money. This wouldn't have happened if heathens hadn't done what they did on 9/11. They would still be living in 'peace' i.e. America wouldn't be invading their country, though I wouldn't call how they were living 'peace'. Could go to jail for mentioning! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Yeah if the system (Capitalism and Democracy) really does create freedom, but I don't think it does. Government intervention itself prevents natural occurences from occuring. This is not freedom, yet on the whole it does seem that goodness is aimed for.
