Well Documented UFO Case

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by EndLightEnd, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. EndLightEnd This too shall pass. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,301
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,888
    Well documented - no evidence.:yawn:
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    I saw the sandman, santa clause and elves, does that mean they are also
    "real" just because I saw them?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. EndLightEnd This too shall pass. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,301
    See title.

    No, not just because you saw them. But are you denying these gentlemen saw something that evening? Something that scared them and that they couldn't explain.
     
  8. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    I didn't see a SINGLE person express any fear over the event! Quit trying to hype this with foolish claims - that's one thing that makes a lot of you UFOlogists look like nuts. :shrug:
     
  9. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,888
    See my reply to title.
     
  10. EndLightEnd This too shall pass. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,301
    Your right I was projecting the fact I would probably be afraid. No need to start name calling. We are all adults, arent we?

    Now back to the topic at hand, what did they see that night.
     
  11. EndLightEnd This too shall pass. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,301
    That makes no sense as there was no original claim of evidence. Here come the trolls.
     
  12. Ripley Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,411
    The newest bit of information I got out of this was that the vehicle banked.
     
  13. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    957
    I only have a moment but took a peek and had to make an obvious point. Every time someone says there is no evidence for UFOs [which is just plain silly] or even ETs, they are wrong. That is blatantly false. There are reams of evidence for both, but no scientific evidence.

    There are many forms of evidence. For example, there are forms of evidence allowed in a court of law; such as when police officers testify to assist in a conviction and removing someone's Contitutional rights. When we ask for scientific evidence for ET, by most standards, we are asking for proof, not evidence. How much weight do we give to multiple policemen who chased an object that was widely reported at the time in the form of 911 calls? Well, proof of it's origins or nature, or even existence, it is not. There is no scientific evidence. But I have never heard of one similar report that involved Santa or unicorns either.

    Is anyone here suggesting that eyewitness testimony should not be allowed in a court of law? Is it being argued that police testimony in a court of law should be treated like unicorn sightings and belief in santa? At best, allusions to santa and the like are disengenuous and misinformed. At worst, they rise to the level of crackpottery. Not one cop or pilot has ever genuinely claimed an encounter with Santa.

    Perhaps it is being suggested that all of the cops and 911 operators were engaged in a conspiracy?

    I know I need to get back to the other thread. I will when I have time to focus.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
  14. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,888
    There is not enough data to determine what they saw.
     
  15. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,516
    Not by itself, no.

    I believe they saw a UFO. And with no other evidence, it will remain unidentified.
     
  16. Gustav Banned Banned

    Messages:
    12,575

    i see
    the best we can say is a shapeless and motionless void was observed neither here nor there
    iow another normal night under the illnois skies
     
  17. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    957
    That wasn't the question. The question is whether police testimony counts as evidence. I never said anything about it being the only requirement for conviction.

    I was addressing the statement that there is "no evidence" for whatever the cops said they saw and what people were reporting. That is plainly a false claim. Even in a court of law, the testimony [claim] itself would count as evidence.

    My only real point here is that they clearly saw something, and it wasn't santa.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
  18. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    957
    Damnit! It don't have time for this. But I have to throw this in.

    Not long after this happened, we had a family reunion in Highland, Illinois. And while my family back there knows nothing of my interest in this subject, one of the cops involved is a friend of the family where the ties go back two generations. The cop is a highly respected member of this small farming community. So I started giving my one cousin, a crusty old salt-of-the-earth farmer, a real bad time. "So what do I hear about you guys chasing UFOs all over the place back here?", I asked rather snidely. I think I even questioned who they allowed to join their police force... Boy did his feathers ruffle! "By God I've known so and so his enitire life... His parents and us go back decades... [volume increases] He's a good God-fearing man... If he says that's that he saw, then BY GOD THAT'S WHAT HE SAW!" Boy, did he let me have it!!!

    It was all I could do to keep from laughing. I didn't let him off the hook until he started getting red in the face.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
  19. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    That's the only kind anyone cares about, and rightfully so.

    Apples and oranges. People testifying in court are legally obliged to tell the truth, and should it come out that they are lying, they will be prosecuted. And the credibility of each witness is weighed by the judge and/or jurors, so it's not as if anyone is compelled to believe them simply because they're on the stand.

    Anecdotal evidence is worthless in this context.

    For one, no one is asking for proof of ET, they're simply asking for verifiable evidence. Testimony isn't going to cut it, because we know full well that people at worst will make shit up to get on TV, and at best have mistaken this "object" for something entirely prosaic.

    But you have heard of similar reports that involved Bigfoot and La Chupacabra.

    Straw man.

    Straw man again. I've already explained to you why testimony in a court of law and public testimony are not comparable. But to answer your ridiculous question, it would depend on what the police are testifying to. If they're saying they chased a flying saucer, then yes, they should be viewed skeptically, and their credibility should be called into question.

    Let's flip the question: Should the officer's testimony simply be accepted without question?

    Interesting that you focus on Santa, while ignoring the fact that other mythical creatures have been reported by so-called "credible people."

    No one has suggested that, to my knowledge. But why would the 911 operators have to be in on it? This could be a hoax without their aid. And why is that so crazy to you? Aren't you one of the few crackpots who claim the government is hiding their knowledge of UFOs? So then you think the idea of a few cops getting together for a hoax is crazier than several generations of government officials and operatives, across numerous presidencies and departments, concocting a cover-up?

    That's lunacy, my crackpot friend.
     
  20. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    I'd like to post my stance on this event. Yes, I believe the cops are being honest about what they saw - something they admit that they could not identify. I've seen a few things in my 60+ years that I could not identify either. :shrug:

    But neither myself nor those cops were in any way able to judge the size of what they saw. There was nothing to provide a reference of size. Those objects could have been no longer than ten feet at a low altitude just as easily as they could have been the size of the state of Nebraska at 80,000 feet. Without a person standing on the surface, a dog, a car - anything that you know the size of - there's absolutely NO way to even make a reasonable estimate of size. Just take a look some day at a plane high in the sky - you cannot tell if it's a 727 or an Airbus 380.

    And attempts to drag other people (911 operators, etc.) into some kind of conspiricy is just another reason why the sane people in the world call you UFOlogists nutters. Just like when the OP tried to claim the object(s) struck fear in to the cops! A plain-out LIE!!! People like him should just crawl back under the rock where they came from. :bugeye:

    In my opinion, yes - the cops saw something. And most likely, given all the circumstances, it was some sort of experimental craft. Military? Possibly. Private civilian? Also possible.

    But to make the HUGE LEAP to ETs is beyond silly - it's just plain stupid.
     
  21. EndLightEnd This too shall pass. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,301
    And who did that, hm? Ill give you a hint, I just quoted him.

    As far as Im concerned this is top secret military tech, which has its own, albeit just as powerful, ramifications.

    Seems as if you are in auto mode?
     
  22. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    You raise some important points here. I'd only add that the term "UFO" is used far too loosely. Just because a police officer on the ground cannot identify moving lights in the sky does not mean that the object is something that isn't entirely accounted for and identifiable.
     
  23. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    I don't think he quoted you. Why so defensive?
     

Share This Page