Hmm.. that can lead to badness. Just keeps you from seeing either good or bad things coming right? Sounds to me like you're trying to be PC. Then take care not to elect a fundamentalist president... oh wait. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! (just joking.. minimal flamage please) That is a somewhat naive perspective. I suppose it's true sometimes, but unless you analyze it dynamically, you'll never know who is effecting you and who isn't - via their beliefs. I'm just trying to make the point that "beliefs" an an integrated aspect of the person.. which is why I agree with the Balder1. Beliefs can get you killed, or laid, or well.. lots of stuff. Hehe, yeah, having an opinion of someone else is judging them without imposing said judgement upon them. I don't have to tell you I don't like your actions to judge you. Hmm.. well, an opinion isn't neccesarily about that. Opinions can be judgments as well. It seems to me that your comments are somewhat PC. It's okay, it happens. I do think it's wise to do what you can to let it go though.
Do you think because you want something it should materialise? What are you doing for yourself, to know God, and why should He give Himself to you, because you now want? If you take Jesus as an example, the exhalted son of God, he still had to work very hard, and was murdered for his trouble, but you simply say "i want" and expect it to manifest. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Why don't you want to know why God allows things to happen, wouldn't that give you a better understanding of Him, thereby quenching the thirst a little more? Why do you limit your search for God to christianity, is that the only religion in which you will find God? My first advise to you is, don't take God to be your order supplier, you don't expect George Bush, the most (percieved) powerful man on the planet, so why expect God to, the source of everything, including power? Love Jan Ardena.
Re: Re: Unanswered Questions Originally posted by Jan Ardena What are you doing for yourself, to know God, and why should He give Himself to you, because you now want? I think a better question is, 'What do you do too know God?' It seems to be a catch 22. You need to believe in order to know Him, but why believe without proof? Why don't you want to know why God allows things to happen, wouldn't that give you a better understanding of Him, thereby quenching the thirst a little more? It appears as if Robin was only refering to the biblical God, whose actions are somewhat devoid of explaination. The best you can do is a guess as to the reasons, but evidently 'you can not know the ways of [the biblical] God.' ...don't take God to be your order supplier... Hehe, I like that.
I try very hard not to judge the followers of other religions, but I am of the opinion that they are on the wrong path to finding God. That is to say that I dont judge the people as foolish because they've choosen that religion, I just think that the religion itself is incorrect. thank you for clarifying your position
Re: Re: Re: Unanswered Questions I'd like to add that by definition there is no way to know what "god" might be "thinking" (given the apparent limititations of human thought and power). I just get pissed off when people start saying "well god probably thought ... blah blah". WTF? Funny, I would think if you contend to subscribe to such nonsense, shouldn't you attempt to maintain some semblance of consistency? People who feign insight into "god's will" or "the lord's plan" frustrate me immensely, mostly because I'm "supposed to" respect their idiotic opinion.
First off, Thanks to all of the support of everyone on this matter. Secondly, I would like to know the experience of God, just as i would like to know the experience of any diety, be him good or evil. Knowledge is important to me, and i believe that i would learn just as much from meeting God then i would from meeting Satan. It was asked what i have done to seek God; i have done several things, in fact. I have attended several different religous meetings from various sects of the church, and i have personlly met with several of the leaders to gain some knowledge, something that i have not realized for myself. However, they reacted with varied responses, from simple admittance that they could not help me (which i found surprising) to scolding me for questioning God. -As a sidenote, i find that talking openly about religion with people is a dangerous subject, people always assume that you are questioning them, and get defensive. Just a thought. Anyway, all of the responses that i recieved were dead ends. Ive picked up several religious texts and have found nothing - I really did not care for "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis. I have (and will continue to) prayed about this daily, asking God not for a sign, but for understanding. So far i have recieved nothing. I have thereby decided to search the internet for answers (mabie God is lurking in the tangled web of the superhighway) which *ta da* brings me here. I have reasoned that nothing short of divine intervention will allow me to see God. But, i suppose that the quest for knowledge leads to many dead ends. Such is life, and all that jazz. ~Robin
UNC student...you have found a place where you can openly talk about religion. When you speak to most Christians about religion, it is dangerouse, not to you, but to them...because you cause them to face what they fear most...the unbelievability of what they hold as belief. I would venture to say you HAVE in fact experienced God and do so every day....but perhaps do not recognize it because you are so focused on what you THINK you are looking for and what you EXPECT to find. You are on a journey, one you obviously have taken up with determination and a good heart. That journey has no end, atleast not in this lifetime. It is not the end of the journey that should be the goal, but the journey itself. The growth, understanding, self realisation, tolerance, love and compassion that will mature as you make your humble way along the path. You seem to feel you are making no progress...often when we feel we are getting no where, we find it takes looking back a moment to realize how far we have come. Trust your self, and except that there is no cookie cutter mold for you to slip in to and feel comfortable. You and the steps you have had to take were your experience and yours alone and will remain so. Take pleasure in the learning and joy in the discoveries you make. Never cease in your prayers and request for understanding and except that it will come...it takes the trip to get to the destination.
Christianity and all other forms of religion are mind viruses IMO. Look up the christianity meme on google. You might find your answers there.
xianity doesnt make sense,it MAKES UP LIES as answers to creation and life's questions/problems,instead of facing REALITY of evidence. start here;www.atheists.org. and www.infidels.org/index.shtml
Re: wesmorris 1a) Yes 2a) No, I'll resist textually flogging you for the moment and just say: I said "I get pissed off when people seem to think they know what god was thinking when he did/said/thought whatever." Oh, but wait yeah, I do get kind of pissed off when people start spouting shit about god as if they are privvy to information that the rest of us are unaware of. To me, it seem like the result of emotional disfunction. Maybe you just don't understand eh? It's sad that people fear that which they don't understand. Isn't it? Oh wait, now YOU are doing it too. Okay, so you are obviously a fucking novice. First, realize that for every set of reproductive organs on the plant, there is a "definition of god". No two of these definitions seem to match. Oh man, this is just too much to squeeze into the little bit of effort I have refuting someone who thinks they have some sort of insight as to what "THE" god did or did not. I'll just say this: If you could step outside yourself and see your own comment.. okay wait. If I said "God sucked my dick yesterday" and I fully believed it... wouldn't you get really really pissed off at me? Okay, maybe you're Gandi and you'd just hope that someday I could overcome the fear that I have that keeps me from understanding that god doesn't suck dick. Either way what basis do you have by which to claim superior insight? Oh wait, maybe you're a scholar of the bible? Okay, a collection of stories by smart, but naive people wrote hundreds to thousands of years ago, collected in one big book is a somewhat decent historical record.. but only in as much as the people understood about the world at the time... which is well, not much. And I'd like to make sure they don't get your LIES instead. I'm trying to protect them from all the nasty viruses out there.. like the one that seems to have you. Indeed Mr. Condescending Man, indeed. Did he say that? Not bad. I would say hat leads to pain. Not all people in pain are suffering. Some revel in it. I don't, I just get sickened by gigantic lies perpetrated on my species by well intended lemmings created by a mind virus. That's all. Don't have any, not suffering. Sorry to dissapoint you. I'll try to be more miserable next time? See above. Wow, I guess I didn't call you Mr. Condescending Man for nothing did I? Wow, can you make him come to my house? Oh, maybe I can come over? Hell, if he'd be kind enough to unambiguously show himself, we could all be saved a lot of typing eh? Surely you have. Have you taken your meds today? I'm sorry, but I'll need a little more to be convinced. I'm sure you'll blame my attitude? Wild guess, pardon. So now the intuitive genius thinks he understands my attitude based on a single post. Hmm. Why do you judge me so? Because you think god is judging you? Why do you need to be judged? What have you done wrong? Why did you do that? WHY?????? Can't you forgive yourself? Oh, you needed some poor guy who died two thousand years ago to cleanse your sins? Jesus is dead dude. Get over it. He was a raving madman anyway. He was obviously a socialist a long time before socialism came to be. Hmm.. now that I think of it.. probably where Carl Marx got his inspiration... even if he was an athiest. *giggle* I think IF jesus existed (ask Cris about that one, interesting theory), then IMO he was insane. If someone told me "I am the light, the way." or anything remotely resembling that and were even remotely serious, I'd comtemplate scheduling an intervention. I do believe in love. I feel it. The purest love of thought and mind is why I'm here. I love conscoiusness. I love my family. I love some other stuff too. God however, is not defined as a human emotion. I addressed this briefly above. Love is a human emotion. An abstract. As far I as know, it is nothing more than a nuerochemical trick... though the experience of said trick is pretty badass. I understand you think you've thought this through and you're completely convinced that you're right, but I think you're another victim... and that bums me out a smidge (it would be more, but my skin is thicker than it used to be). I have faith too. My faith is in reason. Does more for me than invisible sadists in the sky (who only exists as an abstract from the weak minded who cannot accept that the question that they asked that resulted in the answer "god" doesn't have an answer) You honeslty think I haven't heard that kind of crap before? Damn. That borderlines on disrespect. Did you think about that at all? Yeah okay, so you think christianity has a corner on the faith market? Are there still more Hindus than christians? Hmm. I would not at this point put much stock in your answers. *shrug*
wesmorris Wow, guess I hit a nerve, you've got issues in the God department, don't you.....? Got a little carried away in the language area too.... That shows real intelligence. (I'd delete some of that before the moderator sees it...If I were you) I'm here to help people that want help, and it's obvious you don't. You have no idea what your dealing with, the forces at work inside of you trying to lead people away from God are battling that which is in me leading them to Him.... It's an age old battle.....one in which you are just a pawn. And you are on the losing side. But the scriptures tell me not to cast my pearls before swine, lest they turn and rend you...... Now, I don't want to judge....most of the time I make several attempts at reasoning with people of different opinions, and we can disagree and still be civil, but, your threat of textual flogging and all of your sexual fantasies with God indicate otherwise... I'd say you made a decent attempt at rending with a keyboard. So I'm going to make an effort from here on not to provoke you farther, for your own good.....because although you don't realize it, your comments are just heaping coals of fire upon your head. And I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Sincerly, TheVisitor
What are your "unanswered" questions, anyway? Maybe you should share your skeptical parts about the Christian dogmatics so that we may be able to help you.
Re: wesmorris I have issues with lemmings. You seem to be one. Thanks though, for attempting to cloud the issues. You're just not very good at this are you? If you say so. Actually I held back considerably. I'm actually amused though - that you'd let that be an issue. Wow, talk about getting down to the point. Hey, you're really showing that you can focus on what matters. It is quite rich that you would make comments about my intellect. Are you feeling like you're running short on your own? It looks that way from here, especially considering that you didn't take the time to counter ONE POINT that I made. Oh, and if the mods want to erase my shit, they will. I stand behind my words. Not from the likes of you, that is correct. I seek TRUTH, not christian or religious propaganda, tools by which to further spread the virus. Of the two of us, you are convinced that it is ME that doesn't know what he's dealing with? YOU MUST THINK A LOT OF YOURSELF. I know exactly what I'm dealing with... another christian nitwit. Uh-huh. Convenient for you to say so. I noticed you are apparently a little short on debating skillz or maybe is it ammunition? - as you failed to address any point that I made. Oh, and yes, your condescending lies still sicken me. It's not god that makes me sick, it's assholes like you that attempt to speak for him. You call me a pig, I say fuck you. That's not particularly productive is it? Hehe, your lack of ability to cope with commentary outside of your wee little christian perspective is telling. Those comments were for dramatic effect in support of a larger point. I'll just let you guess at the point. Uh-huh. Don't do me any favors. Thanks for nothing. Ah, a sign of humanity. Refreshing. I don't wish harm on many people either, even you. I do wish you'd use the gift you were given (the ability to reason/communicate) for something more productive than spreading mental disorder. It's sad that you are so steeped in it that you can't even see it.
wesmorris You just won't go away will you...? Your like a little kid, begging me to come out and play. Ok, I really don't want to leave anyone confused, even if they are cursing me and spiting in my face. Why didn't I take the time to counter ONE POINT that you made? Cause you didn't make one single rational point.... You called me a "lemming".. sounds to me like you've spent too much time with your joystick in your hand. You called me "another christian nitwit"....not hardly, but how would you know.....have you read any of my previous posts...? All you did was say everything I wrote was a lie, and you gave not one piece of evidence to back your "criticisms" And that was just the nice things you said.... (qouted from wesmorris ) Lets see... theres "obviously a fu@king novice" ""God sucked my d@ck yesterday" "understanding that god doesn't suck d@ck" "Mr. Condescending Man" "Surely you have. Have you taken your meds today?" "Jesus is dead dude. Get over it. He was a raving madman anyway" That last comment tells me that I'm probably doing you harm, by revealing any more truth to you....I wasn't calling you a "pig" thats just what that parable means....Don't throw more truth at someone who's rejecting what they've already heard. All you did was refute everything I said without attempting to understand and bombard me with violent hateful statements like those above, in an attempt to upset me and make me say something back at you in anger....then that would prove to there's no such thing as a christian, right? Sorry, not that easy...... I didn't take your bait, I'm not a novice at this and I didn't lose my composure and rile back at you in anger..... I don't like to "give up" on anyone.....If there's anyway I can reason with you I will....but we've got to have some kind of common ground. Lets take this one statement of yours. You said:......" Okay, a collection of stories by smart, but naive people wrote hundreds to thousands of years ago, collected in one big book is a somewhat decent historical record.. but only in as much as the people understood about the world at the time... which is well, not much." It had nothing to do with the "people's understanding of the world at the time" The prophets wrote the bible by inspiration, as they were moved of God. God was the author, not the men that scribed it down. The prophets just wrote what He told them to say or they saw in a vision. Do you think Isaiah understood what he was saying when he said "a virgin shall concieve"? but it happened. It was prophetcy fulfilled. The bible is a colection of 66 different books, wrote, or I'll say scribed by 40 different authors over a period of nearly 2000 years. And there's not a single contadiction or error in any of it. It didn't depend of "peoples understanding" It's supernatural....Hundreds of things in the bible speak of events happening today....not just vauge guesses, but exact deffinate events. You have to know where to look, just like digging for gold. You could dig for a year and never find a thing, but, if someone told you where to dig, it'd be different. Have you ever seen a painting where an artist painted a picture with some "object" hidden or camoflaged in plain sight..... At first glance all anyone see's is the picture, but once someone shows you the "hidden object" you see it every time from then on... That's all it is, God's hidden His truth in the bible, in plain sight... For a purpose...Read my post on Unanswered Questions titled "the Message" on page two above and it will explain more...if your interested. TheVisitor
Re: wesmorris You think I'm an idiot, and I think you're an idiot. Surprise surprise. If you have an ounce of earnest desire to seek truth (which you seem to think you already have found), you should look up "the christianity meme" on google. It's not exactly right, but it's definately the general idea. If you can muster the effort... try to contemplate what it says in an objective manner. You probably can't accept that you're sick... most people can't. Have you ever talked to a schizophrenic? It's sad. They simply have no way of knowing that they're sick. To me, this is in essence the same thing indoctrination into your cult does. Brainwashes you into the tiny christian corner. I've been over and over the facts as to why christianity is retarded (but it has done SOME good in the world, certainly. religion (though not christianity) was the fundamental building block for early cultures). You can find my posts if you care to.. which I'm sure you don't, as I will never look yours up.. for I don't see the point. Before this turns into a larger pissing contest than it already is. I will stop. I obviously have no respect for your message and will maintain that position unless you GOD tells me otherwise. Please, if you must recruit for your cult, do it elsewhere.
Maybe what I really meant is... if you don't have the respect to refute me point by point, I will NOT waste my time on your stupid shit. Yeah. That's what I meant. But just to pick on one thing you mentioned in an actual attempt to refute me: Is that right? Nothing to do with it eh? You say "The prophets wrote the bible by inspiration, as they were moved of God." Provide evidence of this. If you have any even remotely reasonable bone in your body, you'll realize how insane that sounds. Moved by god eh? Do you know how many murders, molestations, and despicable acts have been performed by those who were "moved by God". When the people took down the towers, they were "moved by God". Why do you suppose that it's true that the "prophets" who wrote the elements of the bible were "moved by God"? Give me a single shred of evidence that is reasonable.... before you bother to answer.. ensure that it's not just "faith" because that's not reasonable. If you do suggest "faith" then I suggest "you are a lemming" because yes, faith is indeed necessary to an extent in life.. but being a cult member because your mom said or whatever... isn't. Yes, it had EVERYTHING to do with their understanding of the world at the time. Did you know that the earth is the center of the universe? Did you know that to have this converstation is blasphemy worthy of a death sentence? Did you know that having sex with little boys is the everday thing (ancient greece). What about that other languages were created by god to punish people for idolitry (is that right? something like that). Did it occur to you that there are a bunch of languages because uh... people evolved in different places and made up their own ways to communicate? What do you think it would be like for an isolated jewish scribe to come upon Babylon for the first time? While the scribe had been isolated, the city was already multi-cultural. To the scribe who has never conceived of such a thing, well... just about any crazy assed explanation would work, especially one that happened to jive with his personal history with the jewishness and the business. Try the anthropological approach when trying to understand history. It's pretty interesting. Oh wait, you can't because your mind is sick. I wish I could help you, but YOU are the only one who can help you. You know, a turkey baster and a supply of sperm can impregnate a virgin on any given day. Why would you find it to be true? Wow, maybe jesus was the first resultant of artificial insemination. Maybe Mary was raped in her sleep. Maybe it was aliens. Maybe she was a liar. Maybe a lot of things eh? Oh, but what a bunch of naive people wrote in a book about jesus's mom's virginity MUST be the truth. What kind of SUCKER are you? Gawd. Okay, believe it if you must... but please.. leave people who are in search of truth as far away from your simplistic interpretation of reality as you can.
Would you mind substantiating any of this? ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] Well, show me where you think there's a contridiction, and I'll show you it's not....With God's help.
You think I'm an idiot, and I think you're an idiot [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ I never said you were an idiot, see.... But I thought you said you were through speaking to me... and then here you are right back again. I just have to wonder with you, maybe there's something there under all that anger.... Maybe you do have some "unanswered questions" you need answered.. I know you didn't start this thread, but you seem to hang around here like it's your adopted home so..... like I said, I never called you an idiot. I say the Bible's true you say it's not... Prove it.
