christianity VS democracy

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by JOHANNsebastianBACH, Mar 14, 2003.

  1. JOHANNsebastianBACH concert master Registered Senior Member

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    I know all you Christians disagree with the decision to separate church and state in 1962.

    My Question to you is: Do you disagree with this because you favor Christianity and believe it to be the truth of our existence?

    I think it is OK to be a Christian and agree with the decision to separate church and state because in a democracy the government cannot favor one religion over another. The government cannot dictate or influence the free will of the public in regards to personal belief.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2003
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  3. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    you thought that we had free will concerning our government...that's cute
     
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  5. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    christianity, democracy.... they're both harmful, and pointless.
    Pointless apart from making the point of being harmful

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  7. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    I think it's something that was necessary. One of the 'signs of the times', you might say. It had to happen so that the kingdom of God would be realized. Eventually all nations will have to remove the clause "under God", because there will be only one 'kingdom of God' in the end, and all other kingdoms will necessarily stand in opposition to it.

    John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

    In the meantime, though, Christians are called to subject themselves to authority, and "give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar". (Rom.13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established...) Any ambition should be towards striving to be a citizen of it the coming Kingdom of God, and not towards establishing a religious government on earth. It isn't a physical or political battle for us anymore.


    Luke 21
    9When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away."
    10Then he said to them: "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.
     
  8. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    will the kingdom of god include hindus, muslimes, pagans, atheists, catholics, protestants, mormons, ignorants, kings, mentally ill, mentally handicapped, morons, etc?

    if not then it will be quite an empty kingdom.
     
  9. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    If that is true, then Christians may have something to worry about.

    Latest religious trends I have read stated that while Muslim is the fastest growing religion, follwed by Hinduism (though Hinduism is the fastest growing in the west) the number of Christians leveled off over the past ten years, and are now starting to drop.

    According to SOME interpretations of the Bible and related religious texts I have read, Christianty was meant to be dominant for one age (roughly 2000 years) before falling.

    It seems that maybe that is the ONE Biblical prophecy that will actually come TRUE!!

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  10. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    Well, that is for God to decide, isn't it? But I am sure everybody you can think of to humiliate would be there...
     
  11. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    3,833
    Au contraire.

    Why should numbers worry us? Give me one example where God did not come to the defense of an opressed minority?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2003
  12. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    You said, "Eventually all nations will have to remove the clause "under God", because there will be only one 'kingdom of God' in the end, and all other kingdoms will necessarily stand in opposition to it."

    What I am saying is that if the current trends continue, then that "one kingdom" may just not be the Christian view of that kingdom.
    If that is true, Christians would be standing in opposition to God's will, wouldn't they?
     
  13. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    I said it will be a kingdom of God, not a kingdom of the majority.

    ***
    John 12:23 Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
    24He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.


    All religions are looking for God, but which make an effort to tell you how God has saved you? You can't save yourself, and no religion can save you, not even Christianity. Only God gets to decide that, and He gave no-one else authority over death than Jesus Christ.

    Who were saved in the flood? Only Noah and his family, not the majority. Why? Because of his faith and because he listened to God's words.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2003
  14. JOHANNsebastianBACH concert master Registered Senior Member

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    this is not the kind of feedback I was looking for. it is simple. Im not asking for religious statements from the bible describing things about the government. I'm asking you to look at it from a nutral standpoint, becouse their are hundreds of religions in the world and U.S. and the government cannot favor just one of them. we have the right to choose which ever one we want to believe.
     
  15. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    *gasp* What the hell?!!!
    I better check ezekiel for some idea's on exactly how to respond to this

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  16. JOHANNsebastianBACH concert master Registered Senior Member

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    Dr Lou Natic: are you saying that it was a mistake to remove the church from state?
     
  17. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    are you talking to me?

    aaah it was a humor..... joke

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  18. JOHANNsebastianBACH concert master Registered Senior Member

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    Dr Lou Natic: what do you think about removing church from state
     
  19. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    I think they should both be "removed", if you catch my drift...
     
  20. JOHANNsebastianBACH concert master Registered Senior Member

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    that is really funny, I catch your drift. But I think you are freaking looney. we have to hav a government of the people, without government there will be no one to protect you. you would be murdered by someone who opposes your views on any subject. Anarchy is non-sense.
     
  21. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    i see the government indoctrinated you well...

    what you need is a stable 'family' or extended family group. Governments were made to increase the power of a few people.
     
  22. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    yeah, I agree with that, but what I really mean is I feel the government would need to change so much that it wouldn't really be considered "the state" anymore, it would be something completely different, all the things the current state consider important really aren't if you ask me, and thats what you were doing.
     
  23. Taken Registered Senior Member

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    Actually, spuriousmonkey, I think that question leads to a definition of the "Church" or "body of Christ". The Church as spoken of by Jesus did not, of course, refer to a building or a denomination. The Bible makes it clear that they are a people who have the law of God written upon their "hearts". Jesus said of a Pagan "no greater faith than this have I found in all of Isreal". That illustrates to me that it is a spiritual calling and not one of culture or denominations.
    Men create denominations, seperations, and little steapled buildings.

    Paul spoke alot about the "do's" and "donts" and all the little convictions that we now see as seperating us in to those denominations. He said it is not for us to judge anothers servant...what is acceptable to one may not be to another and we should not cause him to stumble with our thoughts and beliefs on those matters. Being true to your own personal convictions is the key...not what those convictions are and aren't. Paul knew and taught that it was a spiritual path we all must walk...and that path was a personal journey. So knowing by way of Paul that each has his own convictions and callings...one has to then assume there simply is no one size fits all list of "how to appease God" or "10 step program to get to heaven".

    Jesus said if you kept 2 commandments you had fullfilled them all...Love God, and Love thy brother as thyself.
    Why?
    Because you can't do those 2 things and desire to do any harm to another.
    "Sin" is an intention, not a specific action.
     

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