Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

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    You know whats gonna happen? The torpedo was intercepted and fired back at Earth, Pick 6! The Star Destroyers can come in for the conversion, they are going for 2

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  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    lol... wut?
     
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  5. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, I was making a football joke

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    Pick 6 is an interception returned for a touchdown, and after each touchdown there is a conversion, 1 point is a kick and 2 points is another "touchdown" from the 5 yard line.

    Basically what I meant was that the torpedo will bounce off their shields and hit Earth, then the Star Destroyers will come in and finish them off

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    Ah, lol.
     
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  7. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Ah, lol... and DAMNIT I hit edit instead of quote XD
     
  8. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    Um, what? At no point did Scotty ever say he didn't think they could do it. He seemed somewhat nervous given the amount of mass he was beaming up with two whales and the water, but that's all. The only real problem with the transporter was when he had to beam Chakotay and Uhura back from the US Enterprise supercarrier. And that was when its dilithium crystals were degrading and they were still running the cloak.

    You know, the thing that made them invisible to visual, thermal vision, and sonar?

    Um, since when?

    The Enterprise E is shielded.

    Star Trek visuals are not accurate. The reason being is that watching several blurs flash across the screen firing smaller blurs does not get you good box office results.

    No. You made that up.

    I didn't think we were really told how the ships got there so quickly. They just seemed to finally notice them.

    Even so, that doesn't really help. I assume of course, you realize that the fastest ships at sublight can push up to .8-.9c.

    Again, where is the indication that the power would take that much energy from the ship that it could no longer function? Hell, looking through the transcripts, the only time they had problem with the beaming of whales at any time was after they jumped back to the future, after the alien probe drained them of main power, they crashed, and the entire ship was sinking to the bottom of the ocean.

    And yet, Captain Kirk still managed to beam the whales out.


    The Enterprise E was, if I recall, shielded. Even if it weren't, Shinzon wasn't aiming to destroy the Enterprise, so firing its torpedoes at full yield would have been rather stupid considering he'd kill Captain Picard and thus doom himself to a slow and horrible death.

    You're also comparing other ships to the Sovereign class, which is state of the art and a great deal more advanced. Not to mention we've seen the Enterprise D take blows to its hulls before--leaving on a few dozen meter hole sizes at best and only a lucky shot to the engineering section caused the Enterprise D to lose warp core containment.


    Um, no. Star Trek uses a subspace field to encompass the ship, reducing its mass and allowing them to move at warp speed. There is no space ending phenomenon.
     
  9. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

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  10. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    *bows* Thank you - I'd like to say I'm going to work hard keeping the peace around here... but it seems that the Sci-Fi forum is a bit dead at the moment :bugeye: Not much to really do in this subsection atm XD
     
  11. LoRaan Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    166
    Actually he said he'd never beamed up quite so much before and in a tone that left some doubt. Also there was almost a full minute where the ship was depleted of power after beaming the whales aboard.

    Fianlly Chakotay was never in Star trek IV, Chekov was however.


    Actually ever since TNG for some odd reason. A few Photon torpedoes on a unshielded ship would destroy it yet Shizon;s Scimitar hit the Ent-E with several in key weak places and only dropped the ship to warp.

    Also why else would the ST universe slow to Impulse to fight?

    but they did not raise their shields till after they were hit.


    Actually they do matter. Scenes could easily be done with Warp jumps and warp lines in combat yet Roddenberry specifically slowed them to Impulse speeds.

    When judging Sci-fi you have to suspedn disbelief and go with what you see.


    No. I concluded this from observation. Kinda like shooting from a moving vehicle is less accurate than froma fixed postion. I didnlt make that up I just observed the reality.


    Dude how could you not notice a 12km ship and several 2km ships at your entry point?


    Well the Defiant can push .975c if i rember. But also remember Phaser propagate at .9875c unless effect by a warp field and Torpedoes are slower unless launched from warp.


    Actually they had to sit still over the whales and wait for a full minute for proper power to be restored after beaming the whales aboard.

    And no the whales were not beamed out. The cargo hold hatch was manualy opened releasing the whales.


    alright two things. Picard had ordered shields ups but Shinzon hit before the order could be followed. Second Shiczon was already past the point of no return. he was dead and nothing now was gonna stop it. His goal was to destroy Earth and the Enterprise E was an obstacle. Problem is he got the same tunnel vision his genedonor did.

    I am quoting generalities. Enterprise D suffered a few phaser and two direct hits with Photons at it was crippled. They would have died without destroying the BoP if it had not been that cloaking device flaw.

    Also in countless other episode it takes only a few hits of Photon torpedo caliber to cripple or destroy just about any unshielded vessel.


    How did you come up with that nonsense? From the episode where they were tweaking the warp field to lighten the mass of a moon? If that was the case the warp drave would not have the reality degrading effect shown in TNG nor would it intereact as badly with spatial phenomena. In your idea the ship would still need thrust and have inertia at warp.

    They were quite clear Warp drive somehow takes apart space in front of the vessel and reassembles it behind. Moving without movement.
     
  12. LoRaan Registered Senior Member

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    166
    Actually those "shockwaves" could only be the Heat and light waves given off by the torpedoes. Even the TK impact could only throw out "shockwave" that travels a little faster than sound. BTW by shockwave i mean the expansion and overpressurization of air. And if the TK event was limited to 500miles of overpressurization A Quantum Torpedo would have far less.

    Also the planet is clearly not a Gas Giant as it more resembles Mars in surface topography.

    Still the blasts are at least as impressive as the Meteor that hit Russia and it's 100 megaton equivalency.
     
  13. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed! Thought you may be right on the type of planet - i assumed gas based on the way it looked and nothing more

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  14. LoRaan Registered Senior Member

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    Well, i have been doing a lot of research on both genres and I don;t like either fanboy side that amps one up and totally neuters the other.

    I use the Wongs Suspension of Disbelief and "Visuals trump everything" and then RSA's research the hell out the back science. I try to use each genre's canon materials, but I do throw them out when they seem to contradict themselves.

    For Instance the 200 gigaton Heavy Turbolaser may be just a misreading of simple english. Considering the syntax of the ICS the entire 16 heavy Turbolaser array may have an output of 200 gigatons. Which is far more likely given the Acclamator is a transport ship.

    Isotons is a tricky thing. ST writers dropped the ball here as they used a term that exists and is pathetically small. However i just completely disregard the dialog and go with visuals. What we see is a weapon with a variable warhead yeild from literally one ton to an amazing 2 gigatons for the normal Photon Torpedo. Phasers being another variable yeild weapon that can do upwards of 2 Gigatons per bank. Quantum Torpedoes are more impresive with a whopping 8 gigatons.

    This brings both Star Wars and Star Trek closer to each others firepower levels. Star Wars has a distinct tech edge when it comes to weaponry, shields, and gravity manipulation due to having a galactic civilization that predates the first Vulcan Warp drive (if we make the Battle for Yavin the same date as ST: Nemesis instead of 7 billion years ago)

    In an even numbers fight it would be brutal and a phyrrhic victory for the Empire over the Federation. Unfortunately the Federation controlls less star systems than the average Moff did and there were hundreds of Moffs in the Empire. There would be be no even number fight, just overwhelming odds appearing with no warning and glassing Federation planets. Any staged battles would have the Empire showing up in unprecedented numbers along with Superweapons.

    Though I say the smartest thing would be the Federation surrendering and then funding the Rebellion and when the Rebellion wins help shape the resulting Republic more along Federation lines. Plus imagine what could be done with mergings of the technology. Phasers and Pulse Phaser put through the rigorous redesign and testing that only Class 1 Droids can dream up and perform. Ships with Impulse, Warp and Hyperdrive. Transporters used to fire torpedoes without launch tubes.

    And how sweet would the NCC 1701G Enterpise be as a 30km long Eclipse class Super Star Destroyer with Super Laser that carries 30 smaller Fed Capital ships in main hangar and include Two Dozen Defiant class vessels Light escorts and all ships including back up Dovin Basal shields.

    Just imagine the look on the Borgs face then
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  15. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    While I agree that Federation vs Empire would end very badly for the Feds even in a best case scenario... I doubt the Empire could trump the entirety of Trek in a real combat situation based on the fact that the technology is so varied and dispersed. This holds especially true if the Rogue Borg and/or other "neutral" powers join in on the side of the Federation + Allies (Feds, Romulans, Klingons, Andorians, Hydrans, Lyrans, ISC, et al)
     
  16. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Wow, I cannot believe how long this thread has gone.
     
  17. sheneversleeps Registered Member

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    Dune

    Weirding way, words that kill and giant worm shit that would make The View enjoyable to watch.
     
  18. LoRaan Registered Senior Member

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    166
    But if you bring in the other cultures you also have to allow the Hapans, the Ssiru, the Hive Minds, the Hutts, and the Vong. While all but the last use similiar technologies it it more than doubles the hyperspace fleet not to mention the Vong fleet that is as large as the other combined.

    Imagine facing an enemy that half their fleet can cross your galaxy in days in ways you cannot detect untill they drop out of hyperspace. The other half the fleet has similiar speed in realspace and no warp signature. And once the Death Star or and Eclipse class SSD appears every planet is screaming for a permanent garrison.

    The situation is untenable for the Star Trek side. the very things that made it a good show and tried to keep within some bounds of the reality of 500 years in our future makes for a mismatch against a similiar society 50,000 years down the line.

    Did have an evil thought though. The good old boys vs the newbies. The GOB being Star Trek, Star Wars, BSG(old), and Buck Rogers. The Newbies being Babylon 5, Farscape, Firefly, and BSG (new).
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
  19. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, no doubts if all of Star Wars ganged up on Trek it'd be bad - though, I wonder if Star Wars COULD do that - after all, they seem to have issues with tolerance and comradery within a single entity (Galactic Empire) that I can't see them all working together for very long - hell, I'd bet the Hutts would sell the plans for every Imperial ship given the right price

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    Of course, we need to keep some races out of it for the sake of argument, or else things just get stupid (Q, the Douwd (Kevin Uxbridge), etc) - it's useless speculating what would happen with some of them around XD

    And finally we have to consider how they cross galaxies - if it's done just as a "they show up side by side and fight" thing, then advantage Star Wars all the way - if it's via a spatial anomaly (wormhole or something like that) that allows for a defensible position... well, things just got much harder for either side should they decide to invade
     
  20. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    And shields that go up like Hiroshima if they get hit by a laser.

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  21. LoRaan Registered Senior Member

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    Oh i am all for leaving the Demigods out of this. They seem to ignore every other war.

    Besides you forget in th novels currently the Galaxy is unifying nder the the Empire again. Sure there is a slight anti jedi craze, bt we know that much later Jedi are accepted again, as are a new order, the Imperial Knights.

    I will point out that the new Empire is really not as bad as the old. It is actually run by a much more honorable man. Sure just as power hungry and ruthless, but more honorable and tolerant.
     
  22. LoRaan Registered Senior Member

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    And they consider Kiloton weaponry to be extremely powerful.
     
  23. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Most of what I've been using is from the movies and a few of the more... moderate... novels. Some of the books that allow crazy feats of power far beyond the scope of anything even hinted at in the movies... they just make me feel a little dead inside. After all, if that kind of power was possible, the Jedi would never have fallen in the first place, amiright?
     
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