The gig is up.

Even if you want to state that the whogleflugle bird has no solid basis you have already brought philosophical tools to the table.
Can you not see this?

Demonstratable to who exactly?
You can try and demonstrate to me an electron till the cows come home (in fact I wouldn't doubt that you haven't even had an electron demonstrated to yourself) and I can also reply "yr fulla shit asshole"
:shrug:

My exact point is that you already have beliefs in place to establish what constitutes a "solid basis" (I mean its not like you have ever seen an electron, or more specifically a streak in a foggy medium, is it?).

Nothing inherently wrong with that since most educated persons recognize that belief plays an integral role in the initial stages of epistemology and even pedagogy.

I never said that empiricism lacks substance.

I simply said it was a crappy tool to monopolize all knowable claims (like identifying who one's biological mother or father is for example)

And there is a reason why empiricism is not uniformly advocated to cover the wide spread of knowable claims even amongst zealous advocates like yourself (I mean its not like you have had a dna test on your parents, is it?)

"

If you ever take the opportunity to haul your sorry ass to a learning institute that teaches philosophy I can guarantee that you will spend at least the first semester reading the works by persons who do ascertain religious truths through the language of philosophy.
:shrug:

If its not rocket science.
The same tools that govern rocket science also place the claims of certain persons to be your parents squarely in the category of "deluded"

Ironically you can apply the same limited mode of thinking to reject the claim of certain persons to be your parents.

The way you speak I would be surprised if you have a functional relationship with your parents.
:shrug:

 

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Elaborate on what sore points? I do not recognise any sore points LOL:

I have already dealt with philosophy:

I haven't opted out of the OP's question, you have. It is in fact your sore point dumbass.

Why not try and answer it instead of questioning its validity. LOL.

 

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If you can't recognize that physics has a philosophy, you are simply deluded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_physics

 

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yes, thank you for the invitation.

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if you want to find god, you have to look inside yourself, so if you limit your search to a laboratory, or something outside yourself, you are dooming yourself. not to say that god doesn't operate inside laboratories every day, it's just that, it's not there to be manipulated, just experienced if that's what you want. so is that what you want?

 

Your point is? You just play with terminology to gain ground LOL. Physics is not accepted until it is PROVEN. Until then it can be philosophy. A crossover does not question my stance. Indeed a philosophy WITHIN Physics itself (philosophy is a broad term) would only support my claim that proof is needed to prove fact. And that the rest is just ideas.

You say nothing to affirm YOUR (supposed) fact a belief doesn't need to be proven before it can be held within a sane context by anyone.

The OP is still unanswered:

"If you are a theist, please explain why you believe without proof?"

The simple fact you are a theist proves you are delusional.

 

I do not wan't anything. It would be interesting to receive some proof to justify theist belief. So I may better understand my delusional counterparts.

So I look inside myself and find God? Sounds like delusional BS.

 

Answering for the believers, I'd say that it is a comfort to believe. As this pertains only to the person, as a coping strategy, it can't go beyond that, say, to requiring political decisions of governments based on it. Reality bites the gig, too, showing what really is, contradicting belief, in all areas.

 

ok then don't find it. but if you would, stop bitching at, and blaming, and labeling, and hating those of us who do. thanks.

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and what i'm saying is this, if you don't want anything from god, then you shouldn't be surprised that you don't find anything from god. and that's your fault, not mine.

 

Right. Lets get one thing straight

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. I have seen through the eyes of god. I have had moments of cognitive enlightenment and am very close to finding some kind of will to believe, through my theories and thoughts. But I myself can't get over the lack of proof. So cannot take the leap.

My god experience was whilst heavily hallucinating on mexican mushrooms. I would treat any delusion/hallucination I might have as non-proof of gods existence (internal proof). The only proof that could alter the superior stance (which frustrates the hell out of theists cause they can't dent it) of atheists (who are willing to accept the possibility of god) like me is for there to be external proof/action documented within reality. Verified by a respected group of unbiased learned humans.

Until that happens god-believers are consigned to the loony bin.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cEL6UoMqg

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/3007/Video__Electron_filmed_for_first_time_ever/

I am going to say your full of shit arsehole. Here endeth the lesson.

I haven't replied to the rest of your post as I feel, I'd be flogging a dead horse.
As your wrong about one thing it's definite your wrong about the rest, it seeds doubt in everything else you say, plus you keep coming back with the same inane drivel, it's boring.
If you willing to look you will find the evidence.

 

Apt analogy Audible. how do we bear these crackpots? They offer nothing.

 

why do you think that's such a leap? my thoughts are that it probably has nothing to do with your lack of proof or with science, and it probably has more to do with what it would mean for you personally. THAT is quite a leap. i can testify to that.

 

You see it as you wish. I see it as I wish.

The leap into BS is not one i will be taking in a hurry.

 

"i see it as i wish" = "i believe"

don't let your beliefs inhibit you.

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I have no unproven beliefs so they can't inhibit me per se. A wish is a desire. A belief needs to be proven.

I strive for the truth. Maybe one day WE ALL will find it.

 

Ultimately one has to judge one's own life. If you find peace in belief so be it. Just do not expect an easy ride here.

 

the biggest challenge is to find peace within yourself. you won't find that in a lab.

just sayin'...

 

belief need not be proven, knowledge does.
belief does need evidence, evidence is not proof..
and as far as no unproven beliefs..what if the authority who taught you such beliefs comes into question? (how/why do you believe what you believe?)

..lol..i read that as 'I survive for the truth'..
truth is what we accept as truth.
it is a very subjective thing.

 

I can't address belief in 'God', since I don't believe in gods.

But pretty much everything that I do believe has never actually been demonstrated by logical or mathematical proof. That includes my belief in the principles of logic themselves.

Which was what? That you believe that religious people suck? That's not very interesting.

What would have been more interesting is if you had produced a convincing or even a creative reason why you think whatever it is that you think. But so far, your comments about proof, belief and delusion seem to be overly aggressive and philosophically naive.

 

mmmm, i dont know about that. The truth is the truth and either you know something or you dont (truth).

Though i agree we all delude ourselve to some degree and its perfectly fine. If i look in the mirror and want to believe i look like Johnny Depp or Marlon Barndo when he was in his prime, well it is not true. That example was an exaggeration to make a point.

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Now if i go around telling people "Hey, I am Marlon Brando and you have to believe it" well that can\would be a problem?