Why do you need for there to be a hell and Satan?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Greatest I am, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. Socratic Spelunker Registered Senior Member

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    Whether or not I trust a source is irrelevant if it is reputable. Can I please see your source here?

    And I can't post links because I need 20 posts, total.
     
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  3. HeartlessCapitalist Ravager of Biotopes Registered Senior Member

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    AFAIK the rabbis who set down the Talmud were a little divided over the issue. All/most believed the "Gehenna of fire" will come -- which Jesus also talks about in the Christian scriptures -- but most believed it would be a temporary purgatory.

    The Hell of burning fire is definitely in the Old Testament, though. From the Book of Isaiah:

    Jesus quotes that same bit in one of his fire and brimstone sermons in the Gospel. Mark:

    Not quite sure how the Rabbis reconciled Isaiah with their gentler view of the afterlife, but whatever.

    You're right, however, insofar that the New Testament is a lot more insistent on reminding its readers of the hellfire than the Jewish Scriptures.

    By the fundamentalist Christian position, all Bible books were "inspired" by the Holy Spirit (cf 2 Timothy 3:16). So going by their viewpoint they are essentially the product of prophetic evelation, and thus entirely reliable. Eyewitness accounts weren't needed.

    What Jesus the historical person believed is impossible to know unless one accepts the aforementioned Biblicist position. Me, I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of his Hell preachings were at least mostly genuinely preserved, but we'll never know. The evangelists, though, certainly seem to have believed it.
     
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  5. HeartlessCapitalist Ravager of Biotopes Registered Senior Member

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    [Fundamentalist evangelical answer:] Because it says so in the Bible, aka Word of God.

    Given that you'll watch them anyway, I wouldn't be so sure. Accepting for the sake of the argument that Hell is real and reasonably accurately described in the Bible, it's really, really horrible, with fires burning you forever, demons torturing you and immortal worms gnawing at your flesh for all time. Emphasis on the last bit: It's eternal, literally forever. One everlasting moment of about as much pain and horror as you can imagine, stretched out for infinite googolplexes of years of time.

    You'd have to have a really active imagination to think up a fate worse than that. It makes the Hades of the Greeks look like a picnic. In this scenario, I'll forgive anyone who chooses Heaven, if God will let him in.

    If you say this to evangelicals, they'll just quote some scripture that says God never changes. Like this one:

     
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  7. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    i did speak specifically to the last post, you just didn't like my response.

    submission isn't a burden without sin, it's inherent to law, for all of us. i don't think sin makes being a man any easier than being a woman. this argument is ridiculous.
     
  8. John99 Banned Banned

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    22,046
    Your not all that complex. Sure the op's are hard to decipher, like a madman ranting.

    University of Youtube?
     
  9. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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  10. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    We all know that we can make the Bible say almost anything.

    I guess if I was up against the type of person you envisage, I would just give this and walk away.

    Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

    Anyone too brain washed and thinking that God would go directly against scipture, I cannot and would not bother arguing with.

    Regards
    DL
     
  11. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Yes you are and no you did not.
    I am done here.

    Regards
    DL
     
  12. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

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    Try living next door to one of " Hells Angel " . Monsters can be real
     
  13. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    43,184
    Monsters are real. They are everywhere.
     
  14. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

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    It lives in the future if we don't get our act together. Heaven and hell is dependent on what we do today . Every action has an opposite reaction and all that stuff yeah . We as people of the earth screw it up good today and tomorrow will be just a little closer to hell . Same could be said about heaven . The biggest misconception to Me is " you can't do nothing about it" I am telling you you can do something about it and it all starts with your self and as you make your self different it causes the people around you to change too. Like the way a good joke moves through out a community. Catalysts of change. Cats are animals of prey you know !!
     
  15. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    43,184
    True enough.

    I don't get this bit in relation to my question, but that's true as well

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  16. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Its more that when you start talking about a structure housing individuals (whether it is a family, an organization, a community or a nation) you are also talking about a need for reward and punishment

    No
    Are you saying that we should decommission all jails and disband the police and army?
     
  17. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Do they all torture?

    Regards
    DL
     
  18. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    5,160
    Satan and hell is a logical consequence of knowledge of good and evil. Law memory is binary in the sense that a law teaches us the good and evil of the law, at the same time. For example, stealing is a sin. The good side of the law is connected to not stealing and the postive personal and social feeling that will bring. The other side of the binarius law is connected to stealing and the evil, fear and punishment associated with that.

    Since these scenarios are so opposite and mutually exclusive each side of the same law is stored in a different location in the brain based on emotional valence. The sum of all the evil sides of the known laws is consolidated in the symbol hell. These sides of the laws uses a reoccurring them of fear and punishment. It may be eaiser to see by looking ay who goes to hell; all those who follow the dark sides of law.

    Whether one is conscious or not of all the evil and good sides of the law, both are stored in the brain via the unconscious. So when you obey the law, you also activate the dark side since they are part of the same coin. Prohibition creating temptation works that way. We may try to do good, but the binary data storage of law triggers both data sets. The result is an unconscious compulsion for balance. On the side of the law is self righteous and enforcement. They may do evil in the name of good, by an overly aggressive enforcement process; eating salt might be considered worthy of a beating or jail. One tries to good by the law but the hell trigger brings up behavior associated with hell calling this good

    The concept of Satan changed with time. He was not always the Devil. Satan was originally Lucifer or the bringing of light. The initial polarization was not good and evil(heaven and hell) but a different two-sided coin, which brought unconsciousness into play via the repressed aspect of the polarization. The impulses were light or helpful. It may have been between natural instinct and the new human cultural instinct, when they move in different directions. The light was the unconscious paradox of trying to find middle ground leading to awareness.
     
  19. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    So meting out criminal charges is simply a cover up?
    :shrug:

    Of course not.

    a 20 year jail sentence is just like a holiday in the Caribbean, no?
     
  20. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    No. It is a reaction to society failing the individual.
    We are all part of the systems that create these criminals and should own up to our contribution.
    No one lives in a vacuum and alone. We all effect each other.

    Regards
    DL
     
  21. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    So in what ways do you contribute to the persecution of criminals serving serious time?
     
  22. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Who said we contribute to their persecution.
    We do but that is not the issue under discussion.

    The issue is where they come from.

    Society is who creates them.
    We should recognize this and take our lumps.

    Instead we act all innocent like and put all the blame on the individual.
    How nice for us. We then never have to look at what we are doing as a society and never have to change our stupid ways.

    Regards
    DL
     
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    You lived next door to Mother Teresa?

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    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011

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