Jesus vs the Jews: Day of Rapture

Human imagination. Even the people of Easter Island had Sea Gods who aligned the shells in rows along the beach from smallest to largest. Even in this day and age, some people still venerate meteorites

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haha.. magic rocks from the Gods....

 

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Human imagination vs human reason, hmmm who or what will prevail?

 

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So basically, Christ comes to earth and kills the believers so they go to heaven then kills the disbelievers so they go to hell. So who does he rule for a thousand years? The agnostics?

 

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The agnostics really can't know, so there is no shame or blame on them.

 

Can they plead ignorance when he comes down to earth? If they get religion at that point, they die anyway since Christ is quite egalitarian in his genocidal tendencies. Maybe its a do-over like the Matrix, we start with a fresh batch of some new species of people.

 

hahaha

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Jewish tradition holds that a long-awaited Messiah will come to earth, which the Talmud and Zohar pinpoint will occur sometime between now and the year 2240 (other Jewish sources say the Messiah will come when he is most needed, whilst others still say his arrival will happen when the people of earth are most deserving for their observance of God’s laws). The Messiah will then gather all the Jews from across the world to their homeland of Israel, rebuild the Temple, and impose Halakha (Judaic law) across the entire world. From that moment onward, the world will know absolute peace (in other words, a constant Sabbath) which is called the Messianic era. Interestingly enough, Rabbinical Jewish tradition (a belief system which holds valid the writings and commentaries of ancient Rabbis, known as the Mishnah or Talmud) also advocates a belief in resurrection on earth. According to Talmudic tradition, deceased Jews will be resurrected, and all will have the opportunity to stake a claim in the World to Come. However, the Tanakh itself (Hebrew Bible, including Torah) does not make such a claim.

There are clearly many parallels between Jewish and Christian eschatology. Although the concept of an afterlife (reward and punishment) is not very clear in Judaism, many of the future events to come are very similar to Christian doctrine. The primary difference is the debate between who will play the role of Messiah - Christians believe it is and always has been Jesus Christ, whereas Jews deny Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophesies and therefore believe the Messiah will be someone else. Both sides believe in an era to come when the word will be ruled from a throne in Jerusalem, where all beings of the earth will follow the one true God.

Islam is rather different from the above. The Qur’an mentions signs of the coming of the Hour, but its ultimate timing is known only by Allah. The Hour marks the end of all earthly things, followed by the resurrection of the body and judgment upon every soul by Allah, determining the fate of all individuals in the afterlife. This resurrection is different from the themes of resurrection recurring in Judaism and Christianity - in Islam, resurrection does not occur on earth, but rather it occurs one time, and for all people, on the Day of Judgment. Also, the Qur’an does not explicitly mention an Antichrist or the Second Coming of Jesus. The reason why many Muslims believe these events will occur is because many Hadiths support their validity.

Not exactly. According to dispensationalists, Jesus quietly returns to earth and escapes with all of the believers to Heaven. The earth is left behind with only disbelievers, where great sufferings occur during the Tribulations. Jesus and his believers finally return again (most sources say seven years later) to defeat the Antichrist's stronghold over the world and establish the 1000 year rule. Postmillennialists believe Christians too will suffer persecutions during the Tribulations (no Rapture will occur), and their battle against the Antichrist will end in victory as Jesus returns. From this moment on, Jesus will begin his 1000 year reign.

 

Correct. There is only a Yaum al Qiyamah in Islam and it is for all people and has to do with individual accountability. As you said, the rest of the stuff comes from anecdotes and is probably influenced by Christian and Jewish eschatology.

How would he manage that? Even using superior alien abduction techniques. wouldn't it be noticeable if over a billion people simply disappeared from earth?

 

Since you seem to know Arabic, I have a question to ask you: what is your best translation of 4:157-159, regarding the raising of Jesus to Allah? I am unsure as to whether or not the Qur'an states Jesus never died (which seems to be the popular narrative).

I think the rest of us are expected to be too preoccupied with famine and warfare to notice. Or ... because the Rapture is a flat-out myth that predominately American Christians have come to accept only in the last century. It certainly is the more comforting viewpoint to believe in.

 

Yup, the verse says directly that although they said they crucified the messiah this is not true, that it is all just "the appearance of it" rather than the truth. I suppose one could say that there is no reason why Jesus would stand out among any others of those time. Retrospectively he has a Presence but at the time he was supposed to have lived, no one actually noticed him or wrote about him. And prophets at the time were a dime a dozen. All his history is posthumous.

Well if heaven is to be filled up with postmillenial dispensationalists, hell might be the more pleasant alternative

 

Thanks; I was a little unsure after reading some conflicting Ahmadiyya writings on the topic.

 

Thats because whats his name claimed to be a resurrection of Christ, so the even more posthumous history of Jesus had to match with his rebirth

 

He's only taking the true believers - there aren't that many of them, according to the authorities in the matter.

 

Gods Forgiveness is always there, waiting for just one thing. People to access it by seeking it. But it is unjust to give forgiveness to people who do not seek it.

So Gods forgiveness is on no practical benefit to those who do not want it.

As for the "Jews" i do not know why you singled them out. All people who reject the Message of the Messiah Jesus will face wrath that includes muslims and false Christians and athiests and a long list of others.

I believe that 144,000 descendants of Abraham will be saved during the times of the return of the Messiah Jesus. So i cannot see God destroying all the Jews.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

Yes the Rapture happens on the Day of the second coming.

But you will find some who believe it will happen earlier, i am not one of them.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

Because the numbers of saints had to be grown to a number of Gods will. That takes time.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

No Christ will not be killing believers. That will be done by the anti-christ and his followers. The main way they shall kill us is by beheading.

There will be a few Christians left on earth when the Messiah Returns and it is they who will experience the rapture. They will be coming back to earth with Jesus and they shall rule the earth with Jesus for 1000 years.

Interesting that another person has given a year 2032. From my research i would say it is 2030. That will be 2000 years since the death and resurrection of the Messiah Jesus. of course biblical years are not exactly the same as modern western calendar years. But they are very close.



All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

Oh my beliefs are most closely aligned with the Historical premillennialists position.

The belief in the return of the Messiah Jesus and the 1000 year rule is not something that has come about in the last hundered years. It is an ancient belief that was suppressed by the catholic church, because they wanted their rule to be seen as the fulfilment of the 1000 year reagin. They did this by enforcing an official symbolic interpretation of the book of Revelation that many to day call preterisim or amillenialism. This is the belief that Jesus second coming was a spiritual happening and Jesus was in heaven ruling the world through the catholic church.

In early Church History Historical premillennialism had a different name. it was called the Chiliastic doctrine by the early catholic church and was suppressed as heretical.

Here is a right up on it on an Eastern Orthodox website.

http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/end/chiliasm.shtml


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

Damn. Beat me to it.

Per my brother with whom I no longer speak, there are maybe 20 to 100 million born again, "saved", Christians on earth. The rapture can safely be tucked away in a global event like--hold on to your seats--a meteor strike or nuclear attack.

Careful about your tongue-in-cheek comments about these Christians, SAM. Remember, you're a Muslim. There are plenty of your thobed and hijabbed brethren who believe in some pretty weird shit too.

~String

 

It will be a meteor strike. But Christian will still be around when that happens.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days