Rubber band model

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by noodler, Jul 6, 2010.

  1. noodler Banned Banned

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    Einstein said that atoms are like small acoustical instruments (a violin string is then like an electron, say).

    In that case stretching and relaxing a rubber band is 'tuning' an atom, and plucking it with a finger so it vibrates (so you get a sound, or note when it's taut) is like making an electron radiate.

    Einstein also mentions that the acoustical analogy led deBroglie to the idea of electron wavelength, as a function of frequency (i.e. 'boing, boing').

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    So electrons radiating in say, a plasma, are like a lot of rubber bands being stretched and plucked, by a time-varying electric field. The induced magnetic field must be a function of the polarization induced in the atoms of gas. So the atoms tend to move in the direction of magnetic vector potential, hence Maxwell's equations predict that tubes of flux will form, if the 'matter field' is sufficiently dense. Hence the tube of flux between Io and Jupiter, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2010
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  3. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    Citation required. Lots of people (like Luis Sancho) want to put words into the mouth of Einstein but only betray their own lack of comprehension.
     
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  5. noodler Banned Banned

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    --The Evolution of Physics
     
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  7. noodler Banned Banned

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    'Sup?
     
  8. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    It think you have stretched the analogy past the limits Infeld and Einstein meant and now your speculation about stretching rubber bands "really expresses nothing."
     
  9. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Analogies and rubber bands have this in common: if you stretch them past their limits they break apart.
     
  10. John99 Banned Banned

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  11. noodler Banned Banned

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    Human seeing is due to vibration. Perhaps the next time you see some light, it will shed some light.
     
  12. noodler Banned Banned

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    Thanks for expressing your thinking.
    Can you elaborate? What limits are Einstein and Infeld imposing, and where can I read about it?

    In what way is stretching an atom, not like stretching a rubber band? If you think atoms don't stretch, in an electric field, can you explain your thinking?
    I mean, as a supplement to Einstein and Infeld's thinking, as above. In which atoms are described as small acoustical instruments. I don't think they go as far as to suggest that breaking a rubber band is a part of the analogy, that would be like tuning up a string too tightly, then plucking it really hard, so it, you know, broke. I don't think the broken string analogy is used in their publication anywhere, but perhaps there is one somewhere I haven't seen?

    :bugeye:
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2010
  13. John99 Banned Banned

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    Well not from vibration but you have the answer in there.

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  14. noodler Banned Banned

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    "Maxwell's equations predict that tubes of flux will form, if the 'matter field' is sufficiently dense. "

    How would you relate this to the concept of standing waves in a string, or a superposition of harmonic waves? Or to, say, the harmonic method of tuning a guitar?

    . Yes from vibration. Yuh huh. Light makes electrons vibrate, and you get a conformal rearrangement of pigment molecules.
     
  15. noodler Banned Banned

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    Am I able to reach the conclusion yet, that the objections to post #1 are from the usual monolithic thinkers?
    That the analogy is in fact, the deep and fortunate one that The Evolution of Physics describes, that was, as the authors claim, the idea that led to the wave-mechanical theories of particle behaviour?
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Please post the mathematical justification for this.
     
  17. noodler Banned Banned

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    It has to do with the ion gyration frequency, plasma frequency and Alfven waves. It's not really even undergraduate stuff, I know that much.

    But I understand harmonic motion and why elements emit light too. It's in the book I'm reading.
    What does a charged particle do in an electric field? What if the field varies smoothly, then accelerates back and forth (i.e. oscillates in superposition with a smooth change)?

    Isn't that essentially what a plasma ball does, and can't you demonstrate this principle by 'setting' the the circuit so the cathode emits a smooth ramp voltage, then making the glass vibrate? All the ones you can buy have this feature of responding to sound or tapping. So when the ramp 'signal' is smooth you need the addition of vibration in the glass so the plasma radiates visible frequencies.
     
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    noodler:

    I now require you to back up your statements. This is an official moderator action.

    Please post your mathematical justification that:

    (a) the induced magnetic field must be a function of the polarization induced in the atoms of gas.
    (b) the atoms tend to move in the direction of the magnetic vector potential.
    (c) Maxwell's equations predict that tubes of flux will form.

    You have 24 hours. If no mathematics is forthcoming, you will be temporarily banned from sciforums for trolling.

    Alternatively, if you have no mathematical justification, you may post confirmation that you don't know what you're talking about and you just made that stuff up.
     
  19. noodler Banned Banned

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    James, can you instead of DEMANDING that I post mathermatical "proof", post explanations that show clearly that (a), (b), and (c) are wrong?

    Otherwise I will assume that you are just some kind of wanker who thinks they know everything. And that you think this site is your personal property. And that you're probably a raging poofter.

    But then, this forum is full of gay people, isn't it?
    You're actually kind of pathetic, you know?

    It's good though, how eventually one realises that forums like this eventually become useless and a waste of time. I'll leave you to your whining and drooling, ok then? Obviously I'm wasting your time, you already know everything, right?

    What a pack of losers. You should ban everyone, buddy, they're probably all secretly laughing at you.
     
  20. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    So by your way of thinking, "noodler kills children until such time as he shows clearly that he does not" is a valid scientific theory that we can all get behind rather than demanding that the author of such claims back it up with fact-based reasoning? Oh, I saw too late that you are actually banned for rudeness rather than the anti-scientific content. That saves us the trouble of watching this thread continue. May it forever linger in the Cesspool.
     
  21. prometheus viva voce! Registered Senior Member

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    Something I've often wondered is why are "poofters" "raging?" You'd think if they were actively homosexual it would indicate a distinct lack of repression and associated stress.
     
  22. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    Google + Urban dictionary suggests that "raving poofter" might be meant, what with the concrete dance floors and the UV and glowsticks. I don't know about James R but I don't even spend a fraction of the necessary budget allotment to fit-in fashion-wise with that scene.

    Last time I wore nice clothes to the office, it started a small panic based on the rumor that I was looking for alternate employment.
     
  23. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    If the last sentence is true then that's mean 'ion gyration frequency, plasma frequency and Alfven waves' are high school material, which they aren't. And surely if you know about them you'd know than whether or not they are undergrad level.

    Ah yes, the "I am reading a book therefore I understand it" logic. That definitely puts you in a position to know more than people who have done physics, not just read about it.

    Nice misuse of the word 'accelerates'. And superposition is irrelevant, since you aren't talking about combination of oscillations, just some generic oscillation. Playing buzzword bingo?

    You demonstrate a profound ignorance of the scientific method or even basic rational scepticism. Maybe that is later on in the book you're reading?

    I can't speak for plasma physics but certainly (b) and (c) are false. For (b) never heard of the left and right hand rules for electromagnetism? Its high school stuff. Force, field and current vectors form an orthogonal set in the simplest systems. Or you could write down Lorenz's equation and note the cross product. As for (c) flux tubes require the force particles to self interact and are highly non-trivial. Never done QCD? No, of course you haven't.

    You're projecting.

    Often those who jump to questioning people's sexualities are those who are the most insecure about their own.

    And you've been such a sparkling contributor.

    And yet 'noodler' is not your first account here. If we're all losers why'd you reregister after your last ban?

    Well I suppose its better than people openly laughing at you.

    I happen to know two homosexuals who like 'raving' and often buy glow sticks. Pleasant guys, certainly more hospitable than noodler.
     

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