UFOs filmed over Vatican by guards (7 June)

Maybe the Vatican is really the Mother ship. They do dress like they're from another planet in there.

 

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70 years? The Egyptians used chariots, several thousand years BC. I think you mean from abandoning the horse drawn carriage in favour of a motor car, to a Moon landing. A Moon landing we currently do not have the equipment to replicate. So I don't quite get your point, unless it was that civilisations reach an apogee, and then decline?

I have, and you know what, I also imagine ourselves that long ago, before the new homo sapiens migrated from Africa, and there were two humanoid species around. Casting ourselves that far into the future, we must surely then doubt our future. It's arrogant to assume that homo sapiens will still exist as a race in 70,000 years for a start. 70million and we won't be recognisably human any longer. Again, I don't get your point, unless it's that species can become extinct in long periods of time, either via disease, or catastrophic event.

Sounds simple when you just run numbers. But then you forget you need a living breathing entity in that vessel. Or a robot with AI, and then you think, 'what's the point of sending a probe so far, if everyone on the home planet will have died before it can send back any information, assuming it does so at all?' Also, how does the home planet find another planet worth exploring? Space is big. Candidates are far apart. How do they locate us, and decide we are worthy of exploration? Sure, self replicating ships are hypothesised but then, if that were true, why do so many people report being abducted,.... surely, the self replicating ships would communicate and not keep sending (anal) probes to the same planet over and over?

Sorry, too many questions, no satisfactory answers, and of course ZERO evidence for alien visitation. But feel free to chime in when you have more than allegory.

 

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It only lifted the car onto it's back wheels - get the facts right please MacGyver!

 

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That we are apparently in decline doesn't affect my point.

They need not remain the same species. Why can't their knowledge continue to advance even as they evolve to become a new species? Nothing need wipe them out, esp. if they plan to mitigate catastrophic events.

If you tried to convince Newton that we'd land on the Moon just a few centuries hence, safe to say he'd have big doubts too. They wouldn't need to send back info to the home planet; science isn't less valuable when the group of scientists is smaller. Multiple ships could spread across a galaxy and age at the same average rate if they plan it right, so they could meet up and exchange notes. Perhaps entire civilizations live exclusively on ships. We're on our way to finding extrasolar planets worth exploring. You need only a good telescope, which requires only a bunch of little telescopes, it turns out. If you found life on every nearby planet with the right conditions detectable from afar, you'd have high confidence of finding life on any planet with those conditions.

The answers are not unreasonable. Evidence of alien visitation is obviously beside my points, and a red herring on your part.

 

You are missing the point, that history tells us that civilisations fall. You seem to be proposing that this alien society is somehow different, without any supporting reason.

Why do they advance? Perhaps they suffer a nuclear war, and lose their technology. It's quite possible, it's nearly happened on Earth several times.

Like build a death ray to zap meteorites? Extinctions due to meteorite happen. You think it's possible to prevent them? Please, do carry on and explain.

Seems you are hand waving over the detail. We detect planets using several methods, occultation and wobble of host star usually. We can see the star, but not the planet.

But we cannot resolve planets in other solar systems, so we could not detect life. At best we could use spectroscopy to compare the changes in Fraunhofer lines when occultation occurs. That would give us an idea of atmospheric composition of the occulting body.

The thread is about UFOs. One aspect of UFOlogy is the belief in alien visitation. It's not a red herring. I believe intelligent life to exist elsewhere in the Universe, simply based upon it's size, and probability. I do not however, believe those civilisations have conquered the engineering tasks and visited us. Maybe you should go and wave you hands over their technology, and make the vast problems go away.

 

There are no facts in that case to get right, ....

 

:yawn:

 

Yes, your bullshit is tiresome.

 

At least it varies with interest. Your parrot fashion "prove it or F*off" line is the most tiresome of all. How many times? The Higgs Boson isn't as simple as the standard model predicts - surprise, surprise. You're whole framework of thought is about to be shattered. Watch out blondie.

 

So what? The Higgs Boson perhaps coming in five different types isn't going to suddenly make your stupid ideas sane. It isn't going to mean that bigfoot exists. It isn't going to make two tonne rays able to fly. It isn't going to open up wormholes in time and space that allow aliens to pop round for tea. It's going to refine the established models, not overturn them.

 

History doesn't prove that civilizations fall, esp. for another intelligent lifeform. That's good enough reason.

Yet they need not suffer such. Perhaps they are more docile and cooperative with one another.

It's certainly possible, without a death ray. A gentle push over time is all that's needed, given early detection. Perhaps they diversified on multiple planets and/or their solar system has no large asteroids. Once they achieve intersolar travel they could colonize multiple solar systems for virtual indestructability.

We can still infer stuff about those planets. After 70 million years of technology advancement, it's a safe bet we could infer more than we can today.

That could be enough, giving high confidence of life if you found that nearby planets with the same atmospheric composition all had life. They wouldn't even need high confidence if they were dedicated to space travel. Our history shows lots of explorers who took big risks, e.g. Polynesians who canoed thousands of kilometers to Hawaii, not knowing if they'd ever find land.

It's a red herring since I didn't say I thought we'd been visited, and whether those engineering tasks might be conquered isn't dependent on us being visited. I've shown that your belief is not as reasonable as it seems at first glance.

All I've needed is logic so far. What else can throw against it?

 

...and many of them seem quite adept at anal probing.

Yes! It's all too clear now!

 

It's for the phosphorus contained within the urine of cows and goats stupid..

 

How's your Latin?

Earth history sets the precedent. You have no evidence to the contrary for another planet.

We won't be alive as a race in 70 million years.

 

I mean that history doesn't prove that civilizations must fall. Note that despite the fall of civilizations in our own history, knowledge still advanced worldwide on average. And those fallen civilizations often survived. For example the Mayans didn't die out; it was their gov't that fell. Descendants of the Mayans are alive today. Same thing with the Romans. Latin's still around too, able to be learned by anyone, so you're really not making much of a point.

Absense of evidence is not evidence of absence. I can use logic and our knowledge to infer what's possible.

Just an assumption on your part. Even if we evolve to become a new species, our knowledge could be retained.

 

Just that many have. And I guess nobody in those civilisations ever took the idea it could all end seriously either.

I bet the Egyptians thought that too, until the Library at Alexandria burned down.

Yes I am making a point, considering where I live was once under Roman occupation. That civilisation failed.

It's exactly the absence of evidence that's the problem. Statistically, I believe there should be intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. But as this thread is about UFOs and an aspect of that is alien visitation, well, there's no evidence for that. There's no evidence a civilisation could survive 70 millions as you claim either. That's just pulling a number out of thin air, and also, it's rather spurious, the Universe isn't getting smaller (quite the opposite) it will still take the same amount of energy to accelerate an object, and Newton's laws will still apply, unless you think we'll have some success altering the properties of matter, or bending space. Well, that's lovely in theory, but highly energetic, and simply, we look for energetic events in the sky, and we do not see these things happening, so it's looking unlikely your proposed advanced alien society is doing that.

An assumption based on known rates of change, and previous life extinction events. It was only small creatures, less than our bodyweight that survived last time. Life evolved again. Maybe the new intelligent life form could decipher some of our languages in time, but they would effectively be starting from scratch, and as we don't write on stone tablets any more, it's hardly likely there will be anything left for them to read. Interestingly, that was about 65.5 million years ago, and could happen again, or something similar;

• Within a million years, the hypergiant Eta Carinae, which is 7500 light years from the Sun, may go hypernova.
• In 1.4 million years Gliese 710 will be only 1.1 light years from Earth and might catastrophically perturb the Oort cloud, possibly resulting in a comet shower.

(Wikipedia)

And then we have regular comets and meteorites and new virii to worry about, not to mention supervolcanoes, and nuclear conflict.

It's quite possible for the human race to be sent back to square one. Maybe we won't all die, but those of us that rely on modern technology could be doomed, leaving farming civilisations that never changed to carry on, not changing. Advancement seems not to be inevitable. Various indigenous populations never even developed writing, or the ability to produce metals, for instance.