Auto tune

Discussion in 'Art & Culture' started by sifreak21, May 26, 2010.

  1. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    Been watching videos on youtube.. and the radio.. and it occured to me how much autotune has destroyed music these days.. I hate to say it in spite of the music industry but the last good artist out there that has recently came out is lady gaga.

    many factors but i really do believe auto tune has destroyed the music industry makes me sad

    I want more michaeljackson type artists but i know they will never be comming probably not in my lifetime and beyond
     
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  3. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    You should have posted this in the Arts & Culture subforum.

    Autotune was a cute gimmick when it came out, but it's far outlasted its charm, if you ask me.

    Every decade or two we suffer through a trend of dumbing-down music. The early bonehead rock'n'roll tunes, punk, rap, now this. It always appeals to somebody. After suffering through Frank Sinatra and Lawrence Welk, I thought the early bonehead rock'n'roll tunes were fabulous. Lots of people loved punk and rap. I'm sure there's somebody out there who loves autotune.

    This too shall pass. Be patient. You pull out your old Michael Jackson records and I'll listen to Roxy Music.
     
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  5. stateofmind seeker of lies Valued Senior Member

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    Dude! How can you compare the genres of punk and rap with a gimmick like autotune? Autotune is not a genre... There have been great punk songs and great rap songs. You really think both punk and rap are just fads with no lasting appeal?
     
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  7. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    sorry fraggle could you move this for me
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    (Insert Title Here)

    I'm wondering what it is about Michael Jackson that you like. No, I don't mean that as a criticism. Rather, some admired his star power; some like his voice; few can deny that he was among the greatest stage presences in the history of performance art; others thought he was a great songwriter.

    Depending on what you mean by more Michael Jackson types, there might be an encouraging answer, such as, "Go listen to this ...."

    I'm not sure what to say to this. Lady Gaga is an excellent pop artist, but I don't have any particular appreciation for her music. In truth, she reminds me of Cher's later albums. To the other, I haven't witnessed her stage presence first hand. Maybe there's something in there that would make me fall over and adore her.

    My greatest appreciation for Lady Gaga is the fact that she freaks out uptight people.
     
  9. darksidZz Valued Senior Member

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    I've seen videos like this but can you explain to me one thing, what exactly is Auto Tune? I'm totally confused? I mean what is the thing?!
     
  10. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    Autotune was around long before it was used as an effect and it will be around long after its time as a trend passed. Singers throughout the age of digital recording have used it to modulate the pitches of singers so that they may sound perfect. Still singers usually need to have enough some talent to be within the ball park. For example in Miley Cyrus' tune 'Party in the USA' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M11SvDtPBhA) it's very apparent at time code 38 and extremely obvious at 1:42 along with other places. In this instance autotune isn't used as an effect...but rather a tool to correct singing which inadvertently leaves a resonant digital sound.

    In this instance it was obviously used intentionally as vocal effect and comedic effect as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuYDSa4BRaw

    In this instance it's hard to discern whether or not it's an effect or simply a completely talentless hack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNIZvKf_nSI

    State of Mind
    While I agree that some artists in these genres do in fact deserve to be called artists, the overwhelming majority do not.
    This relatively unknown artist under pseudoname Iron African produces what I feel are intelligent modern raps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFWJHGYw4ik
    I'm sure there are more...even then...I'm not all that impressed.

    Punk on the other hand had little to no credibility. I had a friend who used to frequently expose me to his punk music 'underground' and 'popular'...none of it was artistic. I always considered it to be a low-brows Progressive rock. While the messages were similar and they had overlap in their popularity it seems as if the Punk artists were simply angry "musicians" which lacked the dexterity to express emotions with exception to raw anger. Bands like The Pixies walked the line between the two genres...but wouldn't be classified as true prog rockers amongst most. Conversely a band such as Dysrythmia also walked the line and would be considered both...but were undoubtedly prog. Banco del Mutuo Soccorsoro, Anekdoten, Le Orme, Kaipa, and Anglagard all were clearly prog artists with messages similar to those of punk...however they were mentally cogniscient enough to express it. Even popular acts such as Yes, Electric Light Orchestra, and Rush brought music of the same message concurrently with garbage punk like this..
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  11. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Autotune is an electronic vocal pitch stabilizer. If you sing a note that isn't quite on the pitch of any of the notes on the chromatic scale, it normalizes it to the nearest one.

    For example, B flat above middle C vibrates the air molecules at a frequency of 466Hz. The next lower note in the chromatic scale, A, has a frequency of 440Hz. If you sing a note with a frequency of 450Hz, which is off the scale, Autotune will "normalize" it to 440Hz and turn it into a "correct" A.

    Pop singers generally slide one note into another if they're very close on the scale. So when they sing this way into an Autotune device, the note changes abruptly from one to the next, with no interruption of breath. This makes it sound unnatural, because no one can actually sing that way. (Well, opera singers come very close. Pat Benatar was opera trained and her delivery is noticeably different from the average rock'n'roller. Compare her cover of Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights" to the original.)

    But there's another problem with Autotune. The essence of rock and roll, one of its fundamental characteristics, is a blues modality. This is a major scale with the third and seventh notes sometimes natural and sometimes flat: this is what gives the blues its tension. In fact in singing the note often slides between sharp and flat, producing even stronger tension depending on how long it takes to slide and how much time it spends at either end of the slide. In fact IMHO one of the reasons the guitar became the signature instrument of rock and roll rather than the piano (no disrespect to Little Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis, who were fabulous rockers) is the ability to bend the strings, creating the same sliding effect and more tension.

    Autotune "corrects" the slide. The first half of the note will be on the higher pitch and the second half will be on the lower pitch, destroying the tension in the scale. Singers who use Autotune understand this and don't even try to slide their notes. This removes the blues modality and the tension it creates from this sub-genre of rock and roll.

    Of course rock music has a long and celebrated history of oversimplification. The earliest rockabilly tunes were old-fashioned twelve-bar blues with a bonehead Country Shuffle beat. Doo-wop was the same four-chord progression all the way through the song and into the next one. Many of the early hits used only the notes in the pentatonic scale. Abba pioneered the abandonment of the blues modality long before Autotune was invented. Rap, from a technical definition, is not even music since it has rhythm but no melody. Punk, from the Sex Pistols to Green Day, most of those guys couldn't play their instruments as well as the average high school garage band--in 1959!

    So now we have Autotune, the latest wave of "dumbing down" rock music. I wouldn't be surprised to see the technology evolve so you can do more with it than simply normalizing a note. Perhaps adding vibrato to it (quick oscillation in pitch, what the mis-named "tremolo arm" on a guitar does--tremolo is an oscillation in volume, not pitch). Maybe it will split a note into two harmonic notes so you can sing backup for yourself without overdubbing. Maybe it will automatically translate your song into Spanish for the growing rock en espaƱol market.

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    Autotune is not really a fabulous new development. Karaoke rigs do it for the entire song. If you can't quite sing "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" in F minor, it will raise every note on every instrument by one step (for example) and play the accompaniment for you in G minor.
     
  12. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    I just think he is the greatest artist to ever live in my eyes i was dancing in my underware to thriller when i was like 5, he doesnt use curse words talk only about bitches and hoes guns and money he sends a message thru his songs, He revolutionized music videos/TV and launched mtv and the music industry in general to where it is today.. just the all around influance on the world that he has done.. im sure people will flame me because of the whole little boy incodent but 90% of people dont actually know the amount of charity he gave and what neverland ranch was actually for
     
  13. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    There were a number of bands that got MTV going, including Madonna and Duran Duran, but Michael Jackson certainly made some of the most elaborate videos. "Thriller" was a complete story, and both "Billie Jean" and "Beat It" were exceptional productions.

    One of the greatest things about MTV in the beginning was that they'd play just about any song that had a video. Heavy metal, disco, new wave, ballads, synth-pop, they'd play them all back to back. Radio was really getting fragmented in those days so it was nice to be able to hear a variety of music without having to keep switching stations.

    Back in the early 70s you could leave your radio on one station all day and you'd hear the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Joni Mitchell, Stevie Wonder, Willie Nelson, the Eagles, the Stones, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Yes, Merle Haggard, the Who, Sam & Dave, Patti Smith, David Bowie, Linda Ronstadt, Genesis, Earth Wind & Fire, Roxy Music, Black Sabbath, Kris Kristofferson, the Allman Brothers and Fairport Convention. Now stations play ONLY metal or ONLY hip-hop or ONLY dance music or ONLY soft rock or ONLY R&B.
    Michael Jackson WAS a little boy. The way he was raised, he never had a chance to grow up. All artists have their dark side.
     
  14. Echo3Romeo One man wolfpack Registered Senior Member

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    I hope when VH1 does a recap of the 2000-2010 decade they rip Auto-tune to shreds for its impact on music.

    Did you see the "We Are the World 2: Guilt Harder" thing they did for Haiti? I know people like Vince Vaughn aren't singers, but just keep their mic muted or something.
     
  15. stateofmind seeker of lies Valued Senior Member

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    Fraggle... just b/c it is difficult to sing one style of blues in autotune is no reason to say that it's destroying music... There's still a HUGE diversity in music - probably more than ever before in history - but popular music has turned into garbage; so what? No one's forcing you to listen to the radio or watch MTV's top 10. I avoid it because it's shit most of the time. But to say autotune is helping to destroy music is a crazy oversimplification. Get a web stream or something. There's good music out there, you just have to find it. Would you really be happy if pop music was still playing blues songs? It's been done. Either move on or listen to the oldies.
     
  16. Echo3Romeo One man wolfpack Registered Senior Member

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  17. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    As was noted earlier autotune isn't a style but a technical help. I actually wonder if you guys could tell Whitney Houston singing a song perfectly or using autotune.

    If you can't tell the difference, what is the problem?? Actors/models use make up to cover up imperfections, autotune is the musical equivalent of make up...
     
  18. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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  19. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    I guess I stand corrected after watching the Sagan,Feynman video. It can be a style but accross any other styles, not a style in itself....
     
  20. FreshHat Registered Senior Member

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    Anybody who would equate Sinatra and Welk has a lot to learn about music...and even more about life.
     
  21. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    I don't equate them. Lawrence Welk's band played the conservative popular music style from our parents' era, the 1920s and early 30s. Even though on his TV show they played some contemporary songs, they were always the least outrageous ones, set in very old-fashioned arrangements that made our parents happy.

    Frank Sinatra sang swing, an upbeat form of jazz from the late 1930s that was still popular among older people in the 1950s and even occasionally appealed to the younger folks and made it onto the Top 40. Rock and roll hadn't quite taken over pop music yet, and upbeat songs in other styles like swing, cool jazz, show tunes and even the occasional polka were mixed in with the radio sets. I remember at least one hit by Sinatra in the mid-1960s, "Strangers in the Night"--which, notably, was not swing.

    Many of the other great singers of earlier times tried, with various degrees of success, to adapt to the post-swing era. Peggy Lee, Tony Bennett, Kaye Starr, Andy Williams and Teresa Brewer had a few hits and Julie London (one of my favorites) even covered the Doors' "Light My Fire."

    After all, swing, particularly Western Swing, was one of the motifs that were mixed together to form rockabilly, the first hits that were recognized as being the new style of music that Alan Freed christened "rock and roll."

    But Sinatra and Welk both represented "old-fashioned music." As the feisty and enormous Baby Boomer generation came to seize control of American culture (hula hoops, motorcycles, drugs, civil rights, pacifism, the decline of religion, the sexual revolution) rock and roll virtually squeezed out the older styles of pop music. Even folk music became marginalized, and country music sounded like rock and roll with steel guitars.
     
  22. Gustav Banned Banned

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  23. samaste.march Registered Member

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    Auto tune is not a fabulous new development, It is around long after its time as a trend passed. Singers are throughout the age of digital recording. They are used it to modulate the pictures of singers so that they may sound perfect.
     

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