Everybody Draw Mohammed Day! I almost forgot about the Facebook page with all the cartoon pictures of Mohammad. Not every portrait of Mohammad is negative - although overwhelmingly most of them are. A couple "themes" came to mind as I flicked through the first few pages. I thought a statically large number of Mohammad cartoons dealt with Aisha and the idea that she was a 9 year old. A lot of people seem to think Islam is fine with Mohammad being a pedophile. Maybe this is something Muslims could address to the wider community of non-Muslims by denouncing marriage with 9-12 year olds as wrong more vocally? It does bring up the question: Was Mohammad a pedophile? My answer is no. My explanation is this: Just like Jesus, Buddha and Mosses ... Mohammad is a fictional protagonist in a story book. This story book is about morality in the 6th century, political dynasty in the 8th century and seemingly cult like nuttery in the 21st century [believe it or not but ancestral Muslims were no where as cult-like as modern day Muslims - they actually acted more like normal Westerner's than modern day fundamental Muslims. I'm guessing ancient Muslims would be just as weirded out by modern fundamental Burka wearing Muslims as most non-Muslims are]. Anyway, Aisha. A pedophile would have surrounded himself with lots of children. The Protagonist (Mohammad) doesn't do this. So? Why was Aisha written as a 9 year old? Simple, the people who wrote the Qur'an wanted to ensure their political dynasty. A 9 year would HAVE HAD to be a virgin (sex with 9 year old children was uncommon then - menstruation did not occur that early in that environment and still doesn't and we have a high caloric environment). Why was virginity important? Rule. A descendant of Aisha would by default be a descendant of Mohammad (note she never takes another husband after Mohammad dies). Done and Done. It's very very simple. Do you REALLY believe ancient religions of the Mediterranean were about airy fairy ideas and self enlightenment? PULEASE! The Indians and Greeks had already invented something called "Philosophy" for airy fairy stuff. The people wanted Gods to control things that mattered in their lives. Like the weather. To punish people who harmed them. To offer them a better life after this one. And, believe it or not, just like today, Politicians used that to their advantage (I know who'd have thunk it Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!) to ensure they and their kids got to RULE :shrug: Duuuhhhhh..... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Why was Mohammad the Last Prophet? No new Prophet. No new Dynasty. Why was the Qur'an Perfect? No new Revelation. No new Dynasty. From one culture to another. Across time and space. Kings/Caliphs/Emperors/Pharaohs etc... have spent their lives trying to ensure their dynastic rule in the hope that it's their heirs ruling forever. Aisha was 9, she was a virgin, her heirs had to have pure sweet Mohammad-blood, ergo they got to rule. While this should be bit silly sounding in our modern ears - it's not! haha! It's actually just as relevant today as it was then. Iran's modern day rulers make a HUGE fuss about how they are "descendants of the Prophet" just like they did and have been doing for the past 1200 years. And guess what? That shit wins votes and support from the sheeple. Who cares if someone makes Aisha 9 years old in a story book - as long as it wins you support over your rivals? Certainly not a politician! Look at GW Bush Jr. Now look at Sandy's support for him. You think she'd support Bush if he were Atheist? No fucking way mate. Well, win the support of millions of Sandys - rule over a nation. Am I making any sense here? :shrug:
Of course NO !!! and as i see the the facebook have deleted this "stupid page ", why !??, in the same time why u just repeat ur self and Cud the same questions that every member in this fourm know, and know our side's answer ..
Are you referring to the idea that Mohammad was NOT a pedophile? Just to make sure we're on the same page: My point was also that it's a VERY common critique of Mohammad by non-Muslims. As a matter of fact, I even know Muslims that are very uncomfortable with the idea of Mohammad having sex with a 9 year old child. And, it was NOT something that happened commonly back in 600-700 CE. So, this is something that Muslims could address to the wider non-Muslim community. I mean, take a stand and say a couple things (1) It didn't happen and (2) it was made up for political reasons (3) It is wrong and we condemn anyone who would even conciser such a thing. As for the page itself. Making cartoons making fun of anyone is fine by me. That's my culture. We like to take the piss (make fun off) silly ideas like Gods and Alien Overlords - it's just comical to us people could actually believe in Xenu or Allah. So we like to have a little laugh at their expense. Anyway, the point is, I noticed a lot of people portrayed Mohammad as a Pedo and this suggests that the information that Muslim's are pedophiles needs to be addressed. And this is exactly what happens when a community closes itself off to the wider community and teaching things like the "other" person's belief is wrong (along with that other person). These a problems Muslim's are bringing on themselves and it is they who should stand up and start dealing with them in a peaceful level headed manner. Agreed?
It is God will that Muhammad peace and blessings upon Him should marry that woman. At some point God Almighty revealed that the Prophet cannot get any more wifes. God even, before that, revealed (in Quran) Muhammad's feelings toward a woman called Zaynab. Her husband thought about divorcing her while Muhammad peace and blessings upon him told the man to keep her. Then God revealed that the prophet was hiding his feelings toward that woman. It was God will too that the prophet should marry Zaynab. God says: "Verily, God and His Angels bless the Prophet! Bless ye Him, O Believers, and salute Him with salutations of Peace." Quran: Confederates 33:56 Peace and blessings upon Muhammad messenger of God.
I guess I wonder: Do you think Aisha was 9 years old? Do you think it's acceptable for a 50 year old man to marry a 9 year old child in this day and age (as in now)? See, this is a big issue that non-Muslims have with Islam and why Mohammad is called a pedophile. Saying God said it was OK or God commanded it just isn't really going to float with non-Muslims. I mean, Christians are never going to accept that as they already think Mohammad was inspired by Satan (at worse) or deluded (at best). Either way this needs to be addressed. I think it'd be best if Muslims addressed this issue. I think I laid out a good way to approach the problem logically that will be acceptable to all but the most Fundamental Muslims.
@Michael I forgot to tell that Muhammad peace upon him did not had any sexual activity with her as a kid. Yes, she was 9 years old but she was well developed. Today people marry at this age in some African countries. It was different time, different diet and hot climate. It is highly inconceivable that the prophet would have intercourse with a girl not having a period "in place". But then what about the Ifk story?! Do you know about that?! Do you know that the infidels at that time accused this particular woman of being unfaithful toward her husband (messenger of God)?! They accused her of having sex outside marriage. People talked and it became a big story. The prophet kept saying little about this. It became even a bigger story. And then after a stressful month Gabriel peace upon him revealed the verses that declare the woman's innocence. Yes, God has chosen to declare her innocence by verses of the Holy Quran. I accept Jesus peace be upon him as prophet of God. In fact I am asked in the Quran to believe in the Bible. Muslims would never come up with such evil initiatives as the facebook drawings contest. "Dispute not, unless in kindly sort, with the people of the Book; save with such of them as have dealt wrongfully with you: And say ye, "We believe in what hath been sent down to us and hath been sent down to you. Our God and your God is one, and to him are we self-surrendered" (Muslims)." Quran: The Spider 29:46
Hello Yosef, Sexual maturity is probably occurring more rapidly now than in the past due to our higher caloric intake. It's more than likely a 9 year old then was not "well developed". People did not physically mature as fast then as they do now. That said, I do not know of any modern culture were a 9 year old was be considered an average age for marriage even now. Sure it happens, but, I don't think it's no where near the norm. I already stated my opinion that the reason Aisha was made so young in the story and it was IMO to legitimatize the ruling Caliphate through blood hereditary. This is widely regarded as a reasonable rational for why the girl was made so ridiculously young. That's not really the point now.The point is non-Muslims think Mohammad was a pedophile and will continue to think so until Muslims do a couple things. (1) change Aisha's age to around 25 year old. Now, I personally know Muslim's who say Aisha was 25 years old. So, it's certainly possible. (2) take a stand AGAINST people marrying 9 year old girls. Quoting passages from the Qur'an has little or no meaning to a Buddhist or a Hindu or a Shinto or a Native American Theist or a Christian or many other non-Muslims. IF you really want to prevent non-Muslims from making Facebook pages that call Mohammad a pedophile then you need to start by addressing the issues that they find disturbing. If you don't care, then you'll have to live with Facebook pages calling Mohammad a pedophile. It's that simple. Just don't go to the pages. Because the internet will add more and more and more pages making fun of everything - especially Mohammad. If people try to stop it, then it will happen more and more often. :shrug: Secondly, I have no problem with people making images of anyone (including Mohammad, Buddha, Jesus, etc....). And really, you shouldn't either Yosef. I mean, think about this logically. #1) If there is a Mohammad or an Allah then they will deal with people who make fun of Mohammad or Allah in the afterlife. That has nothing to do with you. #2) It's the artists choice and even the Qur'an says each person chooses their own path. So, again, that has nothing to do with you. If they burn in Hell for having a little laugh at Mohammad's expense, well, that's their business right? #3) People will continue to make fun of Mohammad because of the way Muslims are acting TODAY. #4) If there ever were a Mohammad (which I don't think so but let's say there was) then I'm sure he wouldn't want people killing other humans or harming other humans over something that's not even their business (see #1 and #2) #5) Work to make your religion less violent and more peaceful and people will stop making fun of it. Try to make Islam a better more accepting religion. Because, I have to say, right now most people in the world see Islam as one of the worse faiths around. If you care what people think, then, try to be more peaceful and change Islam for the better. How does that sound?
I think it was a ruse for Michael to offer a retrospective of his opinions of Islam. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
On the internet. Not all of the pictures were bad. One kind of looked like a cool Arab dude smoking with a leather jacket. Like a biker. Too bad Muslims' couldn't get over the whole image thing, maybe they could make Mohammad a little more modern and change people's opinions like that? I support freedom to draw funny pics of Mohammad (or anyone) but I don't think the images are doing anyone any favors - it's not helping the situation. But, I understand why people want to do it. I was going to draw one myself, but, like a stick figure waving hello, but, I'm too busy Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! What I did notice was a lot of the pics portrayed Mohammad as a pedophile. This suggests that a lot people have this opinion. So, it should be addressed. Which, as Muslims are loath to confront these things logically, I took it upon myself to do so Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! See LG post Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
@Michael I am not sure why but I thought you were a person who takes Christianity seriously. In any case, I live a godly life now, I read the Holy Quran, I pray often, I send blessings to the prophet daily. I live my life now the right way. A thing that I should have started doing long time ago. I am a believer in the one God, the creator of the heavens and earth and I can tell you that my life has got incredibly enriched by belief in him. It is plain simple in my religion: "Were they created by nothing? or were they the creators of themselves?" Holy Quran: The Mount 52:35 Amazingly the author who says this is the same author who dares to mention His personal name "Allah" 2699 times in the Holy Quran. Incredible Book. NO single occurrence of His name has been omitted over a period of more than 1400 years. In fact not a single letter. Can any human being do such a thing ?! We don't need to defend the Prophet of God. It is you who need to read more and open your hearts to the truth of Allah - Jehovah God!
Thanks to the Evolutionary perspective we can now answer that question - Both Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Yosef, what's you've said is very common all over the world for people of all sorts of faiths for most of human history. I've meet people who say the same thing about Buddhism, Christianity even Scientology. It's a common uniquely human phenomenon. An interesting biological question is why? I'm personally leaning amygadala volume and its frontal lobe connections, possibly neurotransmitter concentrations as well, but, meh.... these things are neither there or here (for now) :shrug: I wonder? Do you think that the Bible has been corrupted? I'm sure as a Muslim you do. I'm sure you have no problem saying as much. But, you do know that this hurts the feelings of Christians? Should it be made illegal to say the Bible is corrupted because it hurts the feelings of Christians? Imagine this: 800 years ago if you said so in Europe you'd have been murdered for suggesting this. Why? Because it pissed off Christians who think the Bible is the inerrant words of a God. Now fast forward to 50 years ago and Communist China. Say something bad about Charmian Mao. Bye Bye life. Fast forward to today and suppose you were to make funny pictures of Kim Jung Il in North Korea - try making fun of Dear Leader in North Korea - that shit will get you killed. Pictures of Mohammad? It's the exact same sort of phenomenon. We in the West progressed past that recently (last 200-300 years). My overall advice to you is don't try not to do anything stupid and try hard to be a peaceful person. THAT alone will be all you can do to help push Islam into a better direction and make people see it in a better light :shrug: Just remember the majority of the world is made up of non-Muslims. If you care to show Islam in a positive light try to be peaceful. If you ever have to make a really really tough decision, at that time in your life, just ask yourself this: What would Buddha do? Once you arrive at an answer, just suppose this is the same advice Mohammad would have given you. That'll go a long ways towards helping Islam. As for single letter changes in a religious text, well, as you probably already know, there are 7000 year old Egyptian religious texts where not a single "letter"/hieroglyph has been changed. Mainly because they were carved on stone Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! That's what? 5400 years older than the Qu'ran. WOW a 5400 times level-up miracle power... hahaha.... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Actually, I was just thinking the other day that it's just too bad Muslims didn't believe in a changing text. Another fault in the ideology IMO. It just adds to their problems with progressing into the modern world. Whereas you think it's just great the Qur'an is stuck in the ~800s, other people see it as really sad. See, this is interesting, you think an unchanging Qur'an is really nifty and great, while I OTOH think it's just unfortunate for Muslims and sad that some many more kids will be retarded in their development. Different perspectives are interesting. I noticed you quote the Qur'an when you give YOUR opinion. I wonder, is it YOU that are talking here? Or are you just running a bit of Qur'anic software spitting out what someone 1200 years ago was thinking? Interesting...... Where do our ideas come from?
Er...yes, yes a human being can do such a thing. Interesting perspective on the age of Aisha, Michael: but how does it figure in legitimizing the heredity of the Caliph? I'm sorry, I missed this one.
I think the Bible is antisemitic. It requires all Jews to accept Jesus or be damned. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Anyway, just popped in to say that the Everybody Draw Mohammed Facebook page has been banned by Facebook in India. This pre-emptive action resulted from the entire site being banned in Pakistan It was the techies that caught it http://techie-buzz.com/india-tech/everybody-draw-mohammed-day-facebook.html
Anyway, there doesn't seem from what I've heard to be an actual ban on drawing Mohammed: it's drawing him in a negative light that draws legal and social (and physical) attacks.
Everybody has so much to say about Aisha's age. But no one talks about her contributions. It is due to her and her alone that 80% of the worlds Muslims are Sunnis who follow the form of Islam advocated by Mohammed. She was the only one who stood up to Ali and championed the cause of merit and led an army which defeated the son-in-law of the Prophet. Considering she was a teenager at the time, [11?12?13?] if you go by the 9 years age at marriage, it was quite an accomplishment. Considering she never remarried for the remainder of her life, she was quite a woman.
Why? Maybe she was destined to save Islam from nepotism - child marriage is the norm, not the exception at the time. I don't think we can make post mortems on sexuality based on what current moral standards are. Mary was twelve years old when she gave birth to Jesus. Do you blame God for that immaculate conception?
She was? Never actually heard that one. If it were so, is Mohammed equivalent to God? Never heard that one either. Anyway: again, the issue of her age - whether true or false - isn't a slight on her, Sam, but on that of her once husband. If you don't understand the why of that statement, I can't help you.
