Star Wars vs Star Trek

Despite the fact that the Empire is already stretched thin, they're going to waste massive amounts of resources on a sensor that will most probably fail.

Right.

Read it again buddy, they just did.

Except you miss the small part where it woudl require more energy than our galaxy can currently generate.

Ie, about as possible as me jumping to the moon.

It's canon.

Yeah, all two instances!

That wasn't a proper use of the phase cloak. Ie, it was an accidental thing, so they were only partially phased.

And? And? Again, not a proper use of the phase cloak. Come back when you're done stealing Wong's arguments.

It. IS. SCI-FI.

They all do it.

Yes, and?

No shit.

To put it straight, you entire argument is they can't do things that they've clearly done because it is impossible with current physics, am I correct? Yes, I am. You don't actually give two shits about the science, so much as you do wanting your bullshit gravity sensors to work.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works. While in debates we adhear to a level of science for sense (ie, fusion and antimatter and other known power sources should be limited when discussing more down to earth yields), we don't simply throw out clear canon because it suddenly becomes inconvinient to you.

If you don't like it, then simply leave. Thus far you've added very little and I have absolutely no intention of wasting my time with someone who thinks he can pick and choose canon because it's suddenly become very inconvinient for him.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

YES i can.

yes,you can say the Force doesn't exist because it's impossible,but remember this when bringing up the Force: it's not a physical force.NO ONE SAID THAT.
It was a metaphysical, binding, and ubiquitous power.NO connection whatsoever to realism.on the other and ST as a whole is supposed to be realism,so unrealistic things...that's 90% of every single episode...is unacceptable.
THERE. that's where i am heading.
SW never had a connection to science when making the scripts,but even so it's light years more realistic than ST.
S tried,they failed.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

thin? haha,the Empire had hundred of thousands of CAPITAL SHIPS.

Did not.again:technobabble dose NOT prove anything.

s how can that small warp core produce enough energy?hmm

no fuck?

even partially it applies.

even partially it applies.

I HATE TROLLS.They steal your socks! But only the left ones - what's with that

no fuck,well go read a science book so you can understand.

no we don't,and that's not the point.you trekkies claim ST to be realistic.i am proving the otherwise.

i did no such thing.i accept any cannon,even games,books,etc.you just don't like me proving you wrong.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Try millions dipshit.

Unfortunately, they're all so tied up after A New Hope, that they couldn't even invade Mon Calamari, who was publically aiding the Rebellion and was even producing warships.

Again, what technobabble? We're told nothing about how the cloak works in shielding the ship's gravity well. In fact, we're never told that Starfleet can detect in or out of cloaking. For all we know, it could be magic space jammers.

And furthermore, your argument is simply absurd. We're supposed to dismiss ships that can hide their gravity, but when they can suddenly say 'fuck you Einstein' when they go to warp, it's suddenly alright?

Good question. I guess by your logic, a warpcore can produce several times the energy the entire galaxy puts out on a daily basis. Perhaps you should rethink your entire retarded strategy.

Actually, my comparison isn't even really good. It would be more like me leaping from solar system to solar system.

No, it doesn't. Because the method of phasing was not done correctly, we cannot assume that this is anything else but an abomination of what was originally intended. It would be like taking a physically and mentally retarded baby and then trying to pass it off as what a healthy one would look like.

The entire argument is just silly.

Excuse me? I understand it well enough. I've never at one point claimed it all to be hard sci-fi or even remotely accurate. Of course, this was just to distract me from the fact that you didn't want to actually answer my point; you don't care about hard sci-fi; you're just tossing out one thing because it suits you.

You will quote me saying that ST is realistic. Now.

Because I've never said such a thing. They bullshit just as much as anyone else.

For Star Trek? Well fuck me, here I thought you just point blank said that the canon was wrong, I must have been mistaken. Oh wait...

You:

Oh shit, so you did just ignore canon because you didn't like it, didn't you?

And I do applaude how you just tried to switch that around on me. The fact is that you just ignored canon because I proved that ST can hide their gravity signatures. You didn't like that so you started trying to demand that ST plays by the rules or hard science and now you justify it by saying that ST fans claim it's realistic, despite the fact that I've never claimed it to be so.

Conclusion? You're full of shit.

 

cuz they had way better things to do,as the calamari were no real treat.were talking the imperial navy against the calamari.

well get me an explanation and prove you'll right.

no,its not.you just disproved all warp drives.

well i was asking you,you'll on the side with the reactor.

rhetorical questions do't require an answer.

then we can't assume they were PHASED FUCKING SHIFTED.
any way,later the enterprise successfully shifted,yet they could SEE THE STARS OUTSIDE...AND USE THE SENSORS...both require INTERACTION impossible if you'll PHASED FUCKING SHIFTED.

my explanation was very accurate,you are missing my point.

I DIDN'T SAY YOU.but this is the whole point of the threat.

my point was to DISPROVE the claime that you can hide gravity.lear to reed.

oh,took you long to realize i have excrement's in my intestines?
1-what the fuck do you mean by switch that around on me?
2-prove that as long as you please,it will not make it REALISTIC.
3-i did not demanded anything.99% of trekkies CLAIM that already.
4-you didn't claim anything,but you are defending thosse trektards who do.


conclusion:before entering something like this thread,make sure you can be serious,because this is a DEBATE,where we try to prove and disprove claims.
now,I've disproved you'll gravity hiding claim.so end to that.
when it comes to cloaks,a cloaked ST ship would be detected.
did i made myself clear enough for you and you'll buddies?

 

The whole point of this thread is to debate which two science FICTION universes can win if pitted against each other, hence Star Wars vs Star Trek in the very title. It's the basic versus thread. George1, nowhere was there ever a debate on whether or not Star Trek conforms to physics or reality (i.e. Physics vs Star Trek). You cannot dismiss claims backed by sufficient evidences as invalid just because they do not conform to your limited knowledge on what's possible and what is not. We definitely do not know what is and is not possible, do not even attempt that. Can you explain to me sufficiently what dark matter is and why it exists? Can you explain what exactly a black hole is besides a massive gravitational singularity (and can we even prove that's what it is)?

Perhaps in a thousand years, or maybe tens of thousands of year we can do a whole lot more which we probably would consider as impossible in today's reference point. It is incomprehensible to attempt to dismiss claims merely on what we know, or else we might as well stop doing science.

With that said, you CANNOT dismiss things on Star Trek's side merely because of what you believe is right or wrong. If what they (the debaters) claim is supported by a valid canon source, then you must accept it. And even if a whole lot of Star Trek fans say Star Trek conforms to physics or whatever, Hellblade8 never made such a proposition and it sure isn't a valid debate topic pertaining to this exact thread.

 

no,i can't. i did not claim that.i have a wealthy array knowledge.
but as i already demonstrated,some thing we know NOW won't change.they might be enriched,but won't change.the whole gravity hiding thing is one of them.and this thread IS also about the realism.if you don't like it,leave.

yes,IT WILL,not Perhaps.science expands itself continually,but basic things remain basic:you can't hide gravity.

no,but i can prove it.i already did.

I DO

that's why i said

and not

 

Yes, they had nothing better to do than to destroy the facility producing actual warships for terrorists. Just like if the United States was fighting terrorists, they'd be more than happy to let them build warships.

Am I right?

Why? Why we're at it, why don't we point out how fucking silly plasma weapons for Star Wars is? Ie, plasma expands. Use of plasma weapons would make every SW weapon worthless beyond a few hundred meters at best.

In other words, you're a troll.

The fuck are you saying?

No, they don't.

Yes, and they determine this...how? What sort of instruments were they using? Oh that's right, Geordie just theorized that they may have been phased shifted. Even though he has little to no experience with that technology.

Their sensors use subspace physics to scan real space. Therefore, there's no reason to assume they're limited in that regard.

Which means we toss out all sci-fi technology. Including the bullshit that is lightsabers.

Good job.

Threat? What threat? Your entire point is fucking silly.

If you want to know why people think Star Trek is more realistic, it isn't because their bullshit is. It's because they often reference real world theories and concepts, which was very popular during TNG and occasionally in Voyager. It has nothing to do with the fucking warp drive or the fucking cloaks.

And if you honestly think the worse problem with cloaks is their ability to hide gravity, you have absolutely no idea how silly they really are at face value, do you? Here's a hint; heat.

How about you learn to write something that's approaching proper grammar and spelling before you dare to attack my reading skills. I mean shit, You failed to start the sentence with a capital in both of the above sentences and you couldn't even spell 'learn' and 'read' correctly you moron.

What, problems with reading comprehension?

So in other words, you're a fucking troll.

Prove that 99% of 'Trekkies' claim that.

I don't give a shit what other people say. You claimed that SW could track ships via their gravity. I proved that they can hide their gravity signatures. Therefore, you decided to ignore canon because it doesn't suit your argument. I don't give a shit if every other trekkie on the planet claimed shit about crap that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Either you start debating in regards to the cloaking claim and cease this mockery of debating or I'll simply dump your ass on the ignore list and we'll continue the debate without you.

Conclusion: You're a sub-par ape whose learned how to bash his skull into a keyboard. I'm not going to waste my time with someone who clearly wants to dismiss shit based purely on the basis that he doesn't like the technology and because a SCIENCE MOTHER FUCKING FICTION SHOW doesn't follow *gasp* HARD SCIENCE!

So no sir, you lose. You don't dismiss Paramount Canon policy because it suits you. You don't like it? Fine. Go be an idiot somewhere else. I and others here have no taste for it.

 

Yes and no.

Yes:
For things that are sci-fi's area, then they are correct.

However...

No:
We try and moderate a few things. Some things like Spock's Brain is just a downright silly episode or where something is clearly non-sensical, but even then we try to explain it, not merely dismiss it out of hand.

This is mainly used with RL stuff, like antimatter and fusion. Ie, we assume they produce the same amount of energy they normally do, though we might smudge it a bit with greater effeciencies that will become available in the future, but it does give us a bit of a cap end. Ie, Trek can't perform petaton bombardments with normal matterr-antimatter weapons because that's beyond such a capability and that goes for Star Wars, Halo, Stargate, and so forth. It isn't limited to one sci-fi, save for fanboys who try and work their way around it.

EDIT: Or superweapons, which by nature we consider to be an exception. Ie, Obsession, TDiC, NOVA bomb, and the Death Star are all superweapons.

 

Really? Let's see, I count 4 grammatical errors in that sentence alone. Also, you seem to be thinking that you're the shit here in terms of scientific knowledge, as if no one else here has an f*ing clue as to what we're talking about.

Like warp drive, plasma weapons, and hyperspace.

You seem to be under the impression that your empty boasting means anything to us. Either stop being an idiot or we'll ignore you. Simple as that. You're acting like a child whose told that because he can't add anymore armies to the Risk board, that the game doesn't match real world industrial capabilities, so you should ignore them and play them anyway.

Well you know what? We can kick you out of this debate just as easily as we could kick you out of a risk game. We don't have to put up with your presence and you're really not a likable person as far as I can tell.

 

NO,they had a galaxy to worry about,and the calamari were not terrorists,the calamari sector was free at that time.

cuz the bolt travels at a speed way higher than necessary for the plasma to expand.and they normally are MEDIUM RANGE weapons....normaly.

and why exactly?

you'll not to bright are you?

THEN WHY DID YOU ANSWER IT?

my point exactly.

 

oh,that's how you deduce a persons knowledge:his grammar in a lanquage he is still LEARNING.

point?

OH,you ignoring me will hurt my feeling...:bawl:you'll not so important you know. you haven't back up ANYTHING you said with solid proof.

like i care what YOU think of me.
why are you so eager to kick me away?dose it have something to do with YOU BEING AN EGOCENTRIC ASS?

 

No, the Empire actually tried to take the system, but they failed. And the reason they fail and why they can't take it is because their fleet is busy hunting down rebel terrorists to actually commit them to one area.

1) Wrong, they don't travel nearly fast enough to keep the plasma from expanding

2) They're the main weapons of starships. See Clone Wars.

and why exactly?

It's 'too', not to.

I'd almost feel insulted if it weren't for the fact that you can't write worth shit.

Retorical.

So your point is that your entire original point of it not being a phase cloak is invalid because Geordie had no expertise with the subject so he couldn't provide an accurate conclusion on a accidental malfunctional use of the technology based on how we're told the technology works when it works well?

Evidence that you cannot access subspace while phased?

So what, you claim that lightsabers are scientific? Please explain to me oh smart one, what sort of scientific principal do they follow?

You're missing the point of the argument.

The funny part is that I don't know if you're trying to be clever by using 'something' or if you honestly don't know what it means.

You're not making any sense.

You mean 'your', right?

*yawn*

Biased Generalization at best.

No, no you didn't.

No, that's not a fact, it's your opinion. The reason is that because this is a fictional univserse, our science no longer applies. In fact, by your very method, you've failed to apply the scientific method to this debate because you are ignoring the obvious fact that cloaks/ships can have gravity signatures. The scientific method is to thus try and test it to prove that the incident is geniune. However, since that is not possible, we must then come up with a theory as to why it works, not claim that it can't.

You've done nothing but show that their sci-fi series relies heavily upon fantastic things that aren't possible in reality. You've done nothing more than look at a fantasy setting and screaming MAGIC NO WORK BECUSE IT NO REAL!!!!!111! and expect us to take you seriously.

We aren't. You like like a spoiled brat.

Gee, shit, ya think? And here I thought that lightsabers were so realistic! I always wondered why the actors didn't hurt themselves when they were practicing with them!

Jesus Christ.

Then perhaps next time you'll know better than to insult my reading capabilities when you can't write for shit. My 8 year old brother writes better than you do.

Um, yes I have. I've posted the script of the episode in question where it proves that your method would not work.

I don't think much of anything of you. Well, besides dissapointment, but that'll be short lived.

Nope. It has to do with the fact that you've outright said that you don't care about the debate, you just want to win and you're more than happy to ignore something you don't like for not being scientifically accurate in a science fiction show--which is by its nature scientifically inaccurate.

Therefore, why should we waste our time with someone who obviously doesn't care?

 

duh,BETTER THINGS TO DO.

yes it DID.

point>?

this grammar again?

...did i say that?NO,you did.

yes

The lightsaber mechanisms were contained within the hilt. High levels of energy generated by a high-output Diatium power cell was unleashed through a series of focusing lenses and energizers that converted the energy into plasma. The plasma was projected through a set of focusing crystals that lent the blade its properties and allowed for the adjustment of blade length and power output. The ideal number of crystals was three, though only one was required.[3]

Once focused by the crystals, the plasma was sent through a series of field energizers and modulation circuitry within the emitter matrix that further focused it, making it into a coherent beam of energy that was projected from the emitter. The blade typically extended about a meter before being arced by the blade containment field back to a negatively charged fissure ringing the emitter, where it was channeled back to the power cell by a superconductor, completing the circuit.

look who's talking

what?

for you...i don't care about you.

joke dude,it was a joke.ol.

did.

i never said it's real,it is not my opinion,it is a fact.

cuz they did,you don't fucking expect to put that in the movie?

Thor help you.

i meant hard scientific proof.

senses:this makes none.

you don't care about this since you don't bring up REAL ARGUMENTS.

i was about to ask the same thing about you!
reason for me:i take this debate seriously,and i bring science to my aid.
YOU DON'T,so why waste our time with you?
good night now.i'l kill you tomorrow.

 

Hello George1

I beg to differ. All you would need to do is to alter the time-gradient around the ship to match nearby space using the warp core and poof there goes your gravity signature.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

umm no absolutely wrong. Everything is in a constant state of fluxtuation. Don't be so mssively arrogant and say nothing changes.

 

Oh, you've got to be shitting me. So the Empire, which is fighting a civil war agianst the Rebels, doesn't care if they build ships that are capable of not only harming their Imperial Star Destroyers (Ie, Mon Calamari cruiser's had great shielding, which allowed them to fight on par with ISDs), but also lay waste to entire planets, but the Empire had better things to do, even when less than 1% of their forces would be enough to overwhelm them?

Good God you have no clue as to how stupid you sound, do you?

Prove it, show your work.

No, if you understood the language you're writing in, you'd realized that you just invalidated your own point.

No, I'm asking you for evidence. Because as of now, there is none. The very fact that they could still see proves that their sensors still work, as they work via subspace.

Bla bla bla crystals bla bla technobabble bla bla bla bullshit bullshit.

Sorry, lightsabers don't work.

Jabber jabber bla bla technobabble bla bla bullshit bla bla bullcrap.

Sorry, doesn't work in the real world.

That makes even less sense.

Yes, your writing skills is a joke.

A very bad one.

Ah, I see. Obviously you don't know what a fact is. A fact is something that is, a theory explains it.

Fact: In Star Trek, ships can hide their gravity signature.
Theory: They either use senor jamming or perhaps reduce their mass, which should in theory, reduce their gravitational output. Ie, the more mass something has, the more gravity there is.
Conclusion: It's a valid argument.

Opinion: It shouldn't count because it's not scientifically possible.
Theory: Your an idiot.
Conclusion: You're being put on ignore.

They did what? Actually use lightsabers? Do you actually believe that lightsabers are theoretically possible? If so, I have some flying mountains of BULLSHIT! I want to sell you.

Actually, Thor was never a deity who was interested in helping the common man. He was much more interested in his own personal affairs than humans.

It has already been supplied. This is a fictional universe where the very laws of physics do not work the same way as they do here unless established otherwise.

I was alluding to adding you to my ignore list.

Also, it's sense: this makes none, not senses: this makes none.

Coming from you, that's rich.

It seems you've grown a bit more clever. That was about the level of third grader.

No, you've taken RL science and used it to ignore the canon of a fantasy universe, though be it science fiction. You've ignored the principals of science by ignoring the scientific method. You're only bringing scientific facts into this debate because it suits you to dismiss a valid argument.

Welcome to my ignore list. I suggest the others do the same. When you're ready to take this seriously, PM us.

 

NO, you can't... realistic or not, it was done, they can do it, its cannon, end of story. You can't change the rules because you don't like them.

And ST is far more realistic than SW... it's the reason WHY Trek is Science Fiction and Wars is Science Fantasy...

Ugh... I'm starting to see you as another TWScotch/Riceroni...

 

Forget him, I already have. He doesn't want to play the game, he can go somewhere else. We've been more than reasonable in trying to explain this to him and he's refused to listen...so oh well.

 

Hellblade - you should see the bullshit Ricrery is pulling over at SpaceBattles.com... and how many people actually support him.

I see what makes SD.net so strong... the stupid is INDEED strong with those fools.