I understand that serial killers always get lots and lots of fan mail in prison. This notion that anything is OK as long as somebody somewhere likes it...is appalling.
Codependency is appalling. Let the heathens have their vile shit and destroy themselves with it. I wrote a poem once that would be appropriate here... Its called hail pig I see the dividing line get clearer Us and them, back and forth, to and fro, off you go Ready to transfer as you get nearer I practice my call to hasten your fall No one is worthless, so I'll use you Void of knowledge, space to fill you Take my hate, take my pain Wash my sickness down the drain The herds are running into oblivion Blinded by the lies they feed upon Gorging on their ignorance They'll clear a path for the rest of us They see it coming and they don't care They love the smell of it in the air And follow it down to their demise And as they fall into the skies We'll hear their screams as they go past And say, "thank god we're free at last."
Well .... Ask Pete Townshend. • • • A Note for WillNever Here, have fun with this: D'Mite, "Read a Book". Of course, he's "not a rapper". But he is a "poet with a hip-hop style". C'mon, laugh. I can't tell the difference, either. Have fun with the video. It came up for a thread a while ago; I gave my basic thoughts on the song back then.
There is nothing celebratory about Hip hop culture. It being a reflection of a segment of our society does nothing to make that culture less wretched. You can say that Hip Hop culture didn't start blacks on the path to failure, but the truth is that Hip hop culture -- and the jailhouse mentality that it promotes -- are both a symptom AND a cause for the way young black males in particular are behaving in THIS day and age. And I honestly don't want to hear any "historical background and circumstances" that you think absolves blacks for the way their culture has developed. If you believe that blacks have a built-in right, due to past mistreatments, to engage in racism, mysogyny, and violence... then you are not helping to solve the problem. You are perpetuating it. The bottom line is that no other ethnicity in America has exhibited such mysognistic and racially charged hate-speak on as wide a scale as blacks have for many decades, and there appears to be no end in sight. It saturates their music. It saturates their street talk. It saturates their television programs. Indeed, violence and disrespect saturate their entire way of life. That's called "internalization." Millions of Jews were tortured and butchered a mere 60 years ago. The atrocities of the Holocaust are easily on a par with human slavery (and then some). Do you see the Jews continuing to be hateful, miserable failures in American society..? Because I sure don't. Instead, I see their history of gritting their teeth and working three jobs to send their kids to college, so that those kids could grow up to be trained professionals and business people. We see Latin Americans toiling through hours of manual labor and holding down multiple jobs just to make ends meet. Day by day, their status in society improves. And we literally stole half our country from those guys. We see Asian Americans sporting the highest median income for any ethnicity in the country (higher than whites). The only ethnicity that perhaps live as wretchedly as blacks are the few descendants of American Indians that still live today, and that is because we brought their race to the brink of annihilation. And on the other end, we see blacks being corrupted by all sorts of horrors like "white envy" and an expectation for a white guilt trip, and the hypocritical and sick culture of music that belies all this insane shit which was what spurred me to write my OP in the first place. I think that's a very sad thing, but it's become clear to me that you can't always save people... not when they refuse to be saved.
You're a fucking racist, and you're just as much a part of the problem. I happen to live in a redneck town and let me tell you its not about race, its about a mentality. I live among the poor pitiful me who believes that society owes them something for nothing. All the while justifying smoking their crack, and their pot, and popping their oxycotons, and they don't care what they're "forced to do" to get them. I happen to be partial to rock music, and I've seen the most gratuitous, sexist, racist shit ever from stupid hateful irresponsuble white people. I saw pornography being made right in feont of my face before the lights even went down before a disturbed show, not 20 ft away from a 12 year old kid. Motely crue incorporates a 15 min titty cam session into their show, and hires strippers to perform with them onstage, and I haven't even taken the tip off the iceburg. It has nothing to do with race, it has to do with mentality. And for you to single out hip hop and rap out of the absolute BEVY of degrading crap that is the norm in this society, most of which has a bunch of white guys getting rich off of is sickening. I've experienced the difference in the way a white cop treats a black man vs a white man for doing the exact same thing, and it scared me and humiliated me (because I'm white). YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE. You don't see the same problems in other countries. You know why? Of course you do, dumb ass.
What are you talking about, you little whacko? The mentality is linked to their culture. Their culture is linked to their race. That's essentially what black culture is: a counter-culture that developed in response to whites and everything that whites have (in their minds) symbolized. Their skin color is the thread that holds that defiant culture together. And let's be fair. Rich white guys didn't do this to anybody. The single biggest impediment to black people in America today is not outside discrimination. The single biggest impediment to the advancement of blacks in America is their own racist attitudes, as well as their general refusal to ardently seek higher education as one of their primary goals in life. The tired old list of built-in excuses are a crock. I'm sorry, but it's simply a crock. That's an excuse that held water 50 years ago, perhaps, but it no longer has any merit. Between racial quotas and educational grants and loans that are available to only blacks these days, they actually have a better chance of getting an education than most white kids do. Most blacks simply refuse to go to school and apply themselves. Period. Or, when they do go to school, they generally don't work very hard at it, according to the statistics. Is it because they're more stupid than whites..? Is that why the grade point averages and test scores nationwide are significantly lower for blacks than they are for ANY other ethnic group in America (look it up)..? Nope, it's because they don't give a crap and they're still waiting for a handout. Or, it's because of the same jailhouse mentality that has been decried by many prominent blacks in this country. Their hatreds, including an inner self-loathing, are eating black culture away from the inside. This isn't something that the "rich white man" can fix for blacks, either. This is something that blacks have always needed to fix for themselves... and thus far, they have refused to acknowledge that these problems even exist for the most part. I'm watching an entire ethnic group shoot themselves in the foot again -- just as they did back in 1995, when they gleefully celebrated the O.J. Simpson verdict. My tolerance and sympathy for their plight, whether that plight be real, imagined and/or exagerrated, is rapidly dwindling. That's not my fault -- it's theirs and I can guarantee that I'm not the only white American who feels that way.
I'm glad. Freedom FTW. But it contains themes that WillInever doesn't like. Therefore we should all listen to monotone beeps. Because Mozart would be radical (He was a fucking romanticist too. Old school radical). Anywho, I don't support the banning of any music. People who are influenced heavily by what they listen to, can be just as influenced by pundits and politicians. (Like they dont' spread misogyny and racism../sarcasm). I guess parental guidance/ratings are required.
Although its true that hip hop and rap is a US creation and an inner city one at that, it is embraced outside of the United States, its in Asia and in Africa and yes in Europe too. You would be surprised at how much of hip hop culture is mimicked by the Japanese for example or the fact that 50 Cent was sold out in Bangkok. The difference is that they do not fully understand its cultural context nor the colloquialism that makes up the content but it is considered a 'cool' cultural expression and its loved and can be heard in any dance club around the world (for better or worsePlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!) Some examples of hip hop and rap: Chinese hip hop by a popular artist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djBLYQhKr3M Another Chinese rap (quite interesting) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXHc2pbUy4E&feature=related Japanese hip hop (raw booty style): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H14nuSdE8w&feature=related Kurdish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9rdy2RwcsE&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp9iBS07MD8&feature=fvw African rap in swahili: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFfxfUXmSG4 Taiwanese gangster rap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxWDX7SWbPI&feature=related Danish rap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDb13-GNag0&feature=PlayList&p=15C28A176866B377&index=0 They are local groups produced in their respective countries and yes they are full of accompanying expletives. Check them out. Rap and hip hop have long gone global.
Yeah, there could've been biases in the research I read, but the fact remains that most kids are sensible enough not to get swayed by them.. there probably are reports proving otherwise. But the point about wrestling is definitely true; even I've personally seen examples of that.
RATM has political themes.. all its songs are against some or the other action or institution of the government.. their purpose is to spread political awareness and mobilize action. RATM basically aims to do through music what Mike Myers aims through books and movies. I don't think WillINever would be against political activism through music, even if it gets very aggressive.. or would you?
Maybe Willnever would have some appreciation for this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRUlvi5k2EI&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sQYiRFqQ9U&NR=1 Its the Cuban hip hop group Orishas. Its amazing what the Cubans can do with music, you forget about the hip hop rap aspect because its so thoroughly immersed in Cuban dance music. Willnever: "You can say that Hip Hop culture didn't start blacks on the path to failure, but the truth is that Hip hop culture -- and the jailhouse mentality that it promotes -- are both a symptom AND a cause for the way young black males in particular are behaving in THIS day and age." I doubt its the music that creates the failure, if anything the music's themes are symptomatic. It does champion a certain mentality that is counter-productive and I swear I would personally drown any son of mine that sported jeans that fell below the bottom but I don't think these trends can create mischief in young adults that have come from a solid grounding in a responsible family and community, much of it is just posturing I suppose. Willnever: The mentality is linked to their culture. Their culture is linked to their race. That's essentially what black culture is: a counter-culture that developed in response to whites and everything that whites have (in their minds) symbolized. Their skin color is the thread that holds that defiant culture together. I think you have it wrong. I think that the mentality is only representative of 'ghetto' culture and ghetto culture affects anyone who grows up in it hispanic, black or white. Since this culture is embraced by young people from every race I don't think you can say the color is the thread. What does the Danish video or the Kurdish or Japanese have in common? Clearly it is not race. Willnever: Their hatreds, including an inner self-loathing, are eating black culture away from the inside. This isn't something that the "rich white man" can fix for blacks, either. This is something that blacks have always needed to fix for themselves... and thus far, they have refused to acknowledge that these problems even exist for the most part. I do agree with what you wrote here. I don't think its fair to cast a wide net over all african-americans in terms of education etc. but I do think that within a certain segment there is definitely a self-loathing that is expressed in how many treat themselves and others. I also agree that it will only take an internal revolution on the part of individuals and community including the artistic representatives to remedy this problem. I don't know if its a failure to acknowledge the problem per se. I'm not sure if this segment of the african american community is aware of it as a problem, I think its so engrained as a way of being that there is very little introspection and self-awareness. Its acknowledged among african american elites but they generally have solved that problem for themselves or it never existed within their family or community matrix. Take a look at Paige Johnson for example, her father is billionaire Bob Johnson who started BET. She was never raised in a lower income community where self-destruction was one of the obstacles she had to confront. She mirrors the society she was raised in so if she listens to rap or hip hop or not would be wholly irrelevant to who she is as an individual. http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/people/2286.html Here is an excerpt from an article about her mother: The road that Sheila Crump took to Salamander Farm began in Maywood, Ill., outside Chicago, where she grew up a doctor's daughter and where her mother and brother still live. She met Robert Johnson at the University of Illinois. In addition to co-founding BET and originating the award-winning Teen Summit weekly show, she is a musician who taught music at Sidwell Friends School in D.C. and organized a 140-member ensemble of young musicians. As a U.S. Information Agency cultural liaison to the Middle East for five years, she taught music in Jordan and was instrumental in establishing that country's first National Music Conservatory and was presented the country's highest educational honor by King Hussein. Sheila Crump Johnson is a busy woman, one who has always been productive and creative, but who seems to have gotten a new lease on life in recent years. She has come into her own as her own person, out of the shadow of her former husband, their 33-year marriage and the giant media company they founded together. Johnson's groundbreaking reception attracted a crowd of power and money brokers that included local and state politicians, business leaders, wealthy landowners, and media personalities. With charming demeanor and an ever-present smile, Johnson appears to enjoy her guests just as much as they enjoy her company and the delicious foods they sample. The crab cakes, smoked sausages, Virginia wines and cheeses, and fried oyster sandwiches ("They are my favorite!" she says) will be available at the inn, but also at her Market Salamander, scheduled to open in Middleburg this fall. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_11_58/ai_106700553/ They are examples of the culture that created them and its still a black american culture just not ghetto culture. Perhaps the question should be why is it that the best or more positive aspects and representations of african american culture both contemporary and historical are never highlighted. Why are the examples always that which come from the lowest part of the culture and not the highest?
A mentality is not linked to a culture. A mentality is linked to an individual who owns that mentality. I'm telling you that where I live, that mentality is held near and dear and owned by a bunch of white people. For you to single out blacks and rap and hip hop in a world that is systemically saturated and inundated with hate and fear and predjudice and violence is disgusting. YOU are a racist.
Maybe its decline is due to white people embracing it, similar to disco's demise. Eminem, the BeeGees, John Travolta...AAAuuugggghh!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Can the stupid-acting people kindly exit the thread? This thread is not about banning music. This thread is about boycotting music. If you want to talk about banning music, or falsely accuse others of wanting to ban music, then take it to a shitty AOL chatroom. That's where people go when they want to behave like little assholes.
Would you please respond to post #48 and #52. I would like to get your impression on some of what you said that I think somewhat off the mark.
