Question for the pro Israel people.

The borders of most countries were set by war. The original inhabitants of many countries were often wiped out or forced into exile. Hell, all of Europe should, by your logic, have been left to the Neanderthals. They were there first, right? Then those damned imperialist cro-magnons came around, killed their game, and drove them into extinction.

Isreal is a nation. It was created legally. It has been recognized internationally as a nation for decades now. That's not going to change.

 

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Defend yes, attack no. Israel attacks because they attack, its a cycle.

removing the settlements and giving up the water is not "their" terms.

no premise to reply to.

you function in a fantasy world were who ever you feel is wrong gets their sweet vengeance, the world is not fair.

your mean like the arab israel which are full citizens with voting rights?

At the time 30% of the population was Jewish, the Jews and Arabs were killing each other, the land was rightfully divided to solve this, the arabs attacked, israel won and took what it wanted. Call its theft is grossly simplistic and wrong, we are talking nations here not candy in a store. As is the muslims kicked out 850,000 jews from muslim land took all their property (which results in land lost 3 times that of israel in size) and israel absorbed most of those jews, the muslim countries should have absorbed the refugee Palestinians, but instead put them in a state of painful limbo for decades simply to thwart israel.

that not a reply either.

 

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Yes but pre UN charter. also while denfensive conquests are given leeway Israel's was an agressive war of conquest and explusion.

Not really. The end of the ice age and their inablilty to adapt is what killed them.

No its a state.

No it wasn't.

It been recognized as a state not a nation.

 

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Still the same old shit its the arabs fault for having the audacity to defend their rights.

yeah it is.

inferences aren't your strong suit are they?

The world isn't fair but if we have decency we can make it just and the PAlestinians regain hat was stolen is just.

and not allowed to have a full range of beliefs.

No it was it rightfully divided. IT was wrongly divided.

Nope Israel attacked. or did those arab villages that get attacked before the declaration of independence get attacked by fairies?

No calling it anything but theft is wrong.

Wrong as usual. They refused to take them because they shouldn't suffer a cost for another nations actions. but of course in eletricfetus fantasy land that considered "fair" and "just"

i'm no longer going to reply to such things and just report them. It was letting YOU no you filthy accusations and crap won't be tolerated.

 

Question: are you of middle eastern or arab descent?

I ask because you are being illogical. You're saying that use of force by the arabs is acceptable... but use of force by the Israelis is not. Well, if violence is wrong in one situation, then it should be wrong in ALL situations. Otherwise, it's not wrong at all.

 

Sorry about the late reply. It just turned out to be one thing after another after making this post yesterday. My apologies.

In the first answer above you indicate that there is some multiple ownership of this land that is being disputed. I am referring to the exact area that became Israel. Now please, tell me, was this land the sovereign property of the Arab Community, by right of an established and recognized country? Or are you stating that two different countries overlapped what is now Israel?

Better put, where the hell is the exact document that details Israel's acquisition of this land?

 

No probs.

oh well than it depends the palestinians or the united kingdom

There was no arab country their but given the right of self determination they and they alone had the right to form a country because any splitting of the land would have required gerrymandering the shit out of negating that right.

no

their isn't any document they took it by force from the palestinians. There is a treaty with some arab countries splitting the land but its null because the palestinians never agreed to it.

 

irrelevant.

no i'm not.

force in defense is ok force in aggression is not that's the difference.

Um no not really. Your allowed to defend your self, your property, and your rights.

 

their rights to what? Right to crush a people and nation?

yes i'm limited to replying to arguments with proper structure. You said it would fail, but don't explain how, I can't reply to an argument with no evidence, no premise, just a conclusion. You saying "the shy is red" nothing more, I could say 'well its blue" but that just makes a circle of "no its not, yes it is, no its not, etc" which is a trend you go for by not presenting evidence and premise. As can be seen below:

Exactly my point. So its useless for me to reply to these statements as long as you do not explain your argument.

justices is in the eye of the beholder, some see it as just that the Israelis keep the land and the Palestinians should leave, other like you want the opposite, who is right, what is just? Fair would in this case be to make a compromise and divide the land, as it is, now if the Israelis could just get out of and pretend the rest of Palestine is dead to them, the Palestinians could be free to do what ever, one hopes they do the same an pretend Israel is dead to them, thus keep the peace.

how so? They are Muslims, allowed to go to mosque, what? Should they be allowed to wash their feet in sinks?

and Arabs were attacking Israelis in riots, assaults and what we today call terrorism long before independence, the jews vis versa, hence they were divided because they could not stand one another, the Arabs that could stand the Jews still live in Israel to this day.

Hey the israelis should not have accepted all the jews kicked out of muslim countries after 1948, because as you say they should not suffer the cost of another nations actions.

fair yes, just no: justices amongst bias parties is impossible, one side will always believe to other has wronged it, the best that can be hope for it to separate them, get them to prosper and then forgive each other.

you have such thin skin, my I recommend sand paper?

 

no their rights to their land and to have a state.

whats the point of elaborating with you. You just go no that's not what going to happen

but when I explain you go I refuted it even though your counter arguments had gaping holes shot through them. when you've shown your willing to debate honestly I go through the effort.

No fairness is in the eye of the beholder. Justice isn't. It is following the good laws.

Please explain how letting theft be made legit is fair?

their not allowed to express the fact that Israels forcefull taking of their land was wrong.

No iut was divided to give a state to a people that had no right to one.

Actually they were suffering for their own actions.

No justce can happen it just requires an impartial judge(some one not like you)

Stripping people of their rightful property is not justice.

Thin skin. Fuck you asshole. Its not thin skinned to report you for suggesting that calling you out on your dishonesty on this topic is because my father sexual molested me.

 

It's not irrelevant, because it would explain your vehemence. And I'll take that as a yes. Someone who wasn't arab would've just given a straight answer to a straight question.

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No it is irrelevant because it wouldn't have explained anything.

and you have been reported for the implied racist comment that arabs are liars and shifty




and for the record I have stated my ethnicity in the past why don't you go look it up if your so curious?

 

They have a right to the west bank and gaza and to have a state, what the problem, you want them to have more land, land that Israelis live on now?

at least I try to present full arguments and evidence.

what holes? When you say the west bank will be too small I provide examples of micro states, when you say Jordon or Egypt will take over I explain why they don't want to or that Palestinians and Jordon are inherently compatible, of which I present evidence, I have yet to be presented with a counter point of yours I could not refute. I have debated honestly, you just go over the same points over and over again despite the fact I already refuted them, you even go to the childish point of saying "yes it is" with blatant non-argument statements, your reduce to saying "the sky is red, its red, its red, shut up, I'm not going to argue with you about it."

in all honestly both are, justice is not set, real concept, it is imaginary. In this case of what you call "theft" was the creation of a nation in accordance to mandate, a nation of people that were incompatable with the other, it was not "theft" it was a fair deal.

They never had the land taken, then live on it! They live in israel on the land of their ancestors, what land was taken was from the people that no longer live there, that now live in Gaza, west bank or other countries of which unlike the Palestinians of Israel have not been granted full citizenship.

You believe they had no right to a nation, we believe opposite, end of story.

Let me get this straight, if I was a Jew in say Egypt and I get kicked out and the Egyptian get all my property and money because of some Jews (of no connection to me other then religion) who made the state of Israel, and Israel willing to take me in, but the Arabs are not willing to take in the Palestinians, that all fair and just in your book?

It was not their property, and more so it will be the judge who decides who is what property.

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Like I said thin skinned... and what dishonesty? Should we bring up your stance on innocent dieing for justice again?

 

Their are many anti-Israel supporters that aren't Arabs, he right in that it irrelevant what his ancestry is.

 

Israelis don't live in the negev. The beduin used to untill the Israelis said they couldn't. And the Israelis have no right to it.

and fail miserabley at.

I'm going over the same points because you have yet to refute them.

um no Taking something and giving it to another people simply because they want it is theft not fair deal

so because they now live it it was never taken from anyone else. and this hinest debate?

No they don't live on the"land of the ancestors" they live on the land of the palestinians ancestors and once again the arab states crimes agauinst the palestinians nation don't negate Israel's

No i believe they had no right to a state. That there is a jewish nation(ie a jewish people) is a fact.

than you believe a lie. You or anybody doesn't have a right to a nation they either are part of certain nations or aren't.

No and if the kicked out jews would push their claims I would support it but they don't so I see no reason in arguing for something they don't want.

um yeah actually it was.

A judge determines they legality of it nothing more.

Reported for trolling. Taunting me for defending my family against the slanderous claim of sexual molestation.

um your next sentence.

How can you bring something up as my stance when it isn't? Still dishonest and still getting away with slander.

 

What a BIZARRE issue. What you are stating is that this land was for all intended purposes, no man's land, despite the fact that it was occupied. Kind of screwed up to begin with eh?

I get the feeling (which is all I have to go on here) that this "self determination" thing is an Arab form of "justified entitlement" that the Jews do not recognize. Correct? Perspective is hardly a means to a legal ends.

Holy contradictions! There wasn't a document, but there was a treaty, they took it by force, but there was a treaty...:bugeye:

Was Palestine out voted by the other Arab nations at the time? How did their lack of agreement with the treaty go unrecognized at the time of this treaties signing? They most certainly did exist at the time of the treaty as they do now, correct?

 

um the only thing I see screw up are your leaps of logic.

um no its a legal right as enshrined in the UN charter and other documents of international law.

There isn't any document that details Israel gaining the land just an agreement of non palestinian arabs saying they should split it.

they weren't allowed to be involved by everyone.

it didn't go unb recognized it was just ignored by the players.

No they were unoccupied than





Now do us a favor and either honestly debate or d at least don't troll.

 

Which is hilarious because asking someone's background is not racist, and nowhere did I suggest that lies were taking place.

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who want to live in a desert?

well at least I try, unlike you.

I have refuted them! I just went of refutations right there!

leaving those people to be oppressed would have been a greater crime.

I was talking about the Arab Palestinians that live in Israel, they still live on the land they were living on before Israel. I never said it "negates it" rather that if the Arab states stopped their crimes again the Palestinians and accepted them as full citizens the Palestinian people would be a lot better off now and their would not be an issue.

so your saying all nations founded by people are not right?

actually many of said jews complain: http://www.ujc.org/page.aspx?id=43353

again, their was mandate it was divided, for good reason, they left the land when the Arabs attack thinking they get it back and more when the Arabs wiped out the israelis, their loss. The Arabs should not have attacked, the Arabs should have absorbed the Palestinians as equal citizens like the Israelis absorbed all the jews the arabs kicked out as equal citizens.

that the idea.

thin skinned is trolling/slander? and that was a stance you made:

so you openlu admitted you want Israeli children to "suffer" for the so called crimes of their ancestors, latter on your like "oh no they aren't going to die, well maybe some will die but it will all be worth it..." and then you say I'm slandering you because you want Israeli children to die.

 

The beduin.

i did try it got me nowhere.

no you didn't. your refutation have all been shot down.

no one was being oppressed until after the war.

only a few of them. alot were internally displaced.

YEs we know you thin if the palestinians would just relinquish their rights they would be "better"off but they not going to. if they wanted to be part you'd have a point but they don't.

No I'm saying the nation is the people. Saying say jewish nation is the same as jewish people.

Ok than I support those efforts but it still doesn't mean Israel shouldn't give back that which it stole.

No they left to get the fuck out of a war zone which you and those bigots like you wish to puniush them for.

Israel attacked first.

But the palestinian don't want to be abosobed the jews that went to Israel did. Why can't you get that difference through your head.

but that's not what you said

taunting me for reporting you for saying my views are because my dad molested me is. which is what your thin skinned is doing.

Well when you take everything out of context like you are it makes it seem true. You on the other hand made no bones about it you want the palestinians permanently striped of their rights to their lands.


Yes I want people participating in a crime to suffer. The taking and not giving back of property is a crime.