The problem with Repub. politics is they seemed to have forgotten good citizenship.

I have been saying it for several years now, and no, I am NOT some redneck gun toting wacko, but honestly, revolution is the ONLY answer. "They", the rich powers that have become, are far too entrenched to "vote out" or willfully participate out. They will have to be taken out by force, but the chances of that happening are extremely slim.

I don't know about everyone else, but I for one am SICK of being dust under the feet of a bunch of self serving aristocratic pricks.

 

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Well I am a little more optimistic that you Electrafixtion. I too am very tired of it.

 

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no joe, you have failed the goverment. Goverments (democratic ones) are a representation of the people and if the PEOPLE dont see goverment as public service (ie all congressmen are in it for themselves not there electrotes) and dont VOTE to ensure that the people who get in are in it with the attitude of serving the public then its no WONDER you get legislators and executive goverments who only care about maximising there payout when there terms in office are over. The US (at least from the outside and from your own mouths) has a very "me me" sociaty, why exactly would you guys think that if your whole sociaty is "me me" AND you constantly critise those who take public office as "only being in it for the money" that you WOULDNT only atract people who are in it for themselves?

This isnt a critisium of either side of politics specifically, both are surposed to have views on what is in the best interests of the PEOPLE even if those are oposing views but you have ripped that service componant out of public service and then complain its all the goverments falt. Give me a break.

I mean how many americans even bother to VOTE?

 

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That is true, if you do not have good citizenship you will not have good government. We in the United States like to bang on the government of Mexico for corruption, but we need to also look at the log in our eye. We as a society and our governement were on a road to Mexico.

That is why I created this thread, to point out to readers that we citizens have a responsibility for the quality of our government. I think Obama and some of the Democrats understand that responsibility. Unfortunately, I don't think the concept of citizenship has sunk in with the ditto head faction of the Republican Party. Those folks seem to think that if they can be nasty, slap each other on the back and call themselves patriots, it will somehow abrogate their citizenship duties.

 

I'd love to have my own sovereign territory. A city-state in Montana would do.

And my taxes pay for the costs of liberty (the military and police), not to mention a bunch of other crap the government shouldn't even be doing.

 

I pay plenty in taxes, mind my own business, and don't behave in ways that will negatively affect my neighbors' property values. When I vote, it's for freedom-minded candidates who will reduce the power and influence of the government (in other words, never for Democrats and almost never for Republicans). I'd say that I'm doing more than many people are to be a good citizen with regard to the intentions of the Founding Fathers.

 

Maybe you are practicing more of your citizenship responsibilities than many others. But I think we all have room for improvement. But there are more responsiblities than just paying taxes and voting. We need to be informed and reasoned. We also need to respect and bear compasion for others and be honest.

 

I'm sorry, but this is all idealogical and bares out little "reality as is" fact.

There is no one in the world as a whole that doesn't have the "me, me" thing going, it's just the way they exhibit the "me, me" that either (a) attracts attention, or (b) reminds one of their own "me, me".

The sole problem with the United States government is special interest (stuff created apart from the public vote) run amok. Rather than existing as solely a citizenry represent governing body, the government has become a rich lawyer's divisive means to a self serving ends.

99% of the bad attributes of US society could be eliminated tomorrow (proverbially) if those same attributes didn't serve an elite's self serving purpose.

That's reality. Not some definition of democracy that stopped existing over a hundred years ago. In that sense the United States is all Baseball, Hot Dogs and Apple Pie. It's NOT and hasn't been for the longest time.

 

Like what? Why?

By whose standards? What is the "informed and reasoned" position on gun control? Socialized healthcare? Illegal immigration? Boxing vs MMA?

Is "compassion" a code-word for big government?

 

Look at the original post. How do you measure up. And why, to have a government that is responsive to the needs and wants of its citizens.

By standards that can hold up to academic rigour where both fact and reason are used to evauate the merits of each proposal. If you want more than that, I suggest a good class in logic at a community college.

Compassion is not a code word for big government. Often the ideal solution to social problems, in fact more often than not, would be for a smaller government assuming you could keep corruption out of government. But the consititution needs to be seriously revised in order to keep corruption out of it. And that is one of the laws I would like to see changed. I would like to add an anti corruption admendment to the consititution.

 

being a good citizen means that you can keep your finances in order.

 

As a matter of principal yes. But bad things happen to good people too. Adversity is not limited to just bad or irresponsible folks. And in order to keep entrepreneurship alive and the economy moving, you need people to take reasoned risks.

 

Fine! Wonderful! And if that's the case, Joe, then we shouldn't need any of President Osama's new give-away programs that are going to cost a freakin' arm and a leg for every hardworking American!

So all we should need is a little personal charity from all of the liberal doo-dooders in the country and everything will be just fine. I mean, if this site is any indication, there are so freakin' many liberal doo-gooders just dying to give money to needy people ....tons and tons of money from the gazillions and gazillions of liberal doo-gooders.

Shit, the country will be back on it's feet and doing great in two weeks!

Baron Max

 

He cast himself as a defender of decency, particularly on television and the Internet, and was among House members urging then-President George W. Bush to declare 2008 "the National Year of the Bible."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_ex_congressman_girlfriend

 

Baron an over simplification to say the least. We are not talking charity here with respect to Obama's so called "giveaway programs". Name Obama's giveaway programs. If you are referring to healthcare, he is trying to improve quality (US is laggigng in quality standards) and put cost more in line with what other industrial countries are paying. By the way, this is exactly what a businessman/woman would do. And when they see instances where cost is excessively high and quality lower, then they need to take corrective actions. And that is precisely what Obama is doing.

Today, the government pays more than half of all healthcare expenses. That cost needs to be trimmed. Our healthcare system is more than twice as expensive as other healthcare systems and the cost is growing at more than twice the rate of inflation.

Each year more and more folks are finding healthcare too expensive, and the number of uninsured is growing. As Obama has stated the current system of healthcare is unsustainable.

You are so worried that someone might get something that they did not pay for you are willing to bring the whole system to its knees....sad. Bottom line, healthcare costs are too high, artifically high and that has got to stop.

 

Oh, yes. A government takeover would be great for quality. It would take the unrivaled care available at our best hospitals and bring it down to the level of the BMV, or maybe the free clinic. I can't wait! That'll be just great.

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Yes, because no one is better at controlling costs and sticking to a budget than the US government! Never mind the $2 trillion dollar deficit they're currently racking up in one year!

That's right again. Because Obama has so much experience in the private sector.

So turn it over to the $2 trillion annual deficit boys. That'll bring things under control. I mean, they've done such a good job with medicare and social security; why not put all of our healthcare in their hands.

And he's seeking to replace it with one that's even less sustainable.

 

Asguard, while I appreciate you pointing out Joes excessive partisanship (as if all "bad citizens" were Republican); you're barking up the wrong tree on the voting issue. I mean, at least we in the US didn't need to pass a law making it mandatory; to vote! Seriously, if someone requires the motivation of a civil or criminal penalty to cause them to bother to vote, I'm not interested in their opinion.

 

I feel for you Mad, but not too much. Your positions are so weak to have to continually resort to strawman arguements...invention positions and pinning them to your opposition.

One, how do you equate my supposed excessive partisanship with Assguards statement that not all individuals vote. You know full well it is the Republican Party who likes to keep voter turnout low. You also know that the Republican Party posted individuals as polling centers to try to intimidate voters from voting in last decade.

 

Again you are back to strawman arguements. Show me once where Obama proposed a government takeover of the US healthcare system? You cannot because he has never made such a proposal. But that does not stop Republicans from making the statement over and over and over. No matter how many times Republicans want to repeat this lie it will not make it true. And I think it goes to proving my point on Republican lack of citizenship...the principal of honesty.

On the issue of fiscal responsibility, Obama was handed a mess brought about by your Republican officials. A Medicare Prescription drug committment of hundreds of billions of dollars; a banking system in crisis; business leaders in a state of absolute fear; in short, ; an economy on the brink of collapse. These problems as bad as they were were further exacerbated by the lack of leadership demonstrated under Republican management.

So after a few months as president, who really cannot in all honesty blame Obama or the Democrats for the mess they inherited. If the situation is unimproved or worse in four years, you will have case for your side. But I would not bet on your side, because Obama thus far is doing all the right things.

Since you are quoting Obama's budget numbers, you should also quote the deficit he is projecting for his fourth year in office, 500 billion a darn site better than the current numbers.

And on final point, if current government run healthcare systems are so badly run, why is it that private industry is afraid of competing with them in the free market...could it be that management expenses for Medicare and Medicaid are only 4 percent versus 15 percent for private industry? How can you in all honesty argue in one breath that government run healthcare systems are bad and then in the next that private industry cannot compete with government run healthcare systems?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/us/politics/27web-budget.html

 

Wow, that's a familiar response. Weak positions, strawman arguments, feigning bipartisanship or anything that somehow exonerates yourself from criticism (at least in your mind) where have I read that before?

You also know that the Republican Party posted individuals as polling centers to try to intimidate voters from voting in last decade

While I can't say that repubs don't plant people at polling places, nor could I definitively say that it is 100% innocent, what I can say is that you need to extract the beam from your eyes before making accusations. And no Joe, I am not talking about you actually planting people at polling places. I am referring to your party.

It should be mentioned that democrats continue their intimidation tactics after election results, how many recounts did Franken get? Deny it, joe. And please don't go to Florida 2000, that has been demogued to death by lefties. Facts of the case are clearly irrelevant to dems as far as it goes for Florida.