Why do you think Sam is a twerp? And what offence has she committed to be considered anywhere near a ban? None that's what. I've quite enjoyed participating in the discussion to tell the truth.
I have stated over and over agian the exact opposite, I DO WANT A VIABLE STATE OF PALESTINIAN. Do I need to repeat it over and over again? I DO WANT A VIABLE STATE OF PALESTINIAN I DO WANT A VIABLE STATE OF PALESTINIAN I DO WANT A VIABLE STATE OF PALESTINIAN I DO WANT A VIABLE STATE OF PALESTINIAN I DO WANT A VIABLE STATE OF PALESTINIAN What I don't want is to kick out the Israelis, doom them to a genocide as you do,etc I want them to have their state and prosper and I want the same for Palestinian, no matter how evil or disgusting I find people (and the Palestinian really disgust), I still want prosperity for them, unlike you who wants death to a people because you think a every Israeli man, women and child is guilty and must be punished. No, you cannot punish countries as if they were a collective individual, the world is not so cut and dry. I seriously doubt the Israeli children are applicable. Yeah, but you want to punish them all, wether they directly were responsible, indirectly or were born years later to these people. Replies like this: Electrifetus: If the Arabs were to take over Israel there would be a second "holocaust", guaranteed. pjdude1219: maybe, maybe not. but honestly it would be deserved. Is hate, no question about it. No one can causally feel that a whole peoples should die. How is wanting death on a people "best for everyone in the long run"? What needs of the Israelis are you considering? I'm at least considering the needs of Israelis and Palestinians. ??? yep keep plugging your eyes. Nothing but full destruction of Israel is all you see, everything else is hearsay!
Yet you don't want gaza and the west bank connected which is needed to make the state viable. I don't want that. But I would rather the Israelis suffer a cost and have a viable state for both than your wish of no cost to the Israelis and a viable state only for the Israelis So you claim yet you would deny the Palestinians everything needed to have their state and prosper. Your claims are meaningless unless you back them up with compatable ideas. Way to blame the victim but than again I should expect nothing less from a bigot. You won't to doom the Palestinians to being vassal is what you want. They are knowingly gaining from a family member's crime which is contrary to law. and I don't want death. So your against the embargo of cuba. Against the isolation of Iran. It happens. Sometimes to punish the criminals when it comes to people innocents suffer as well. Their suffering is on the criminals not the those dispensing justice as you would like. They are being used as weapons against the Palestinians. Your the prime example of how. You cannot gain from a family member's crime. I don't casually think a whole people should die. I merely feel that if a people have spent 60 years abusing another people they deserve the backlash that would result. The morality of that backlash ans whether it should be allowed is a different story. I do not want death. I am willing to pay more deaths up front if the overall death toll is lowered. I'm letting their wants be considered equal with Palestinian needs for one thing. I am considering their need to be able to interact peacefully with the rest of the middle east. what needs of the Palestinians are you considering? their need for a viable state? nope you don't want a Palestinian state to be connected their fore leaving at the mercy of Israel to defend its self. Their need for their rights as a people to be recognized? nope you have completely shit on their rights of self determination. Their need to prosper? nope you wish to leave them with the paltry land the Israels have pushed them on which contain jackshit for resources. Their need to be respected as a people? nope because you demand that they give up all their legit claims as a people to land that was taken from them by force. Your neither pragmatic nor neutral therefore you cannot welcome me to being in the realm of being pragmatic and neutral because you yourself are neither. I am plugging nothing. I am merely looking at what your saying AND what is required for them to pass. What the fuck are you smoking? While I have said I believe dissolving of Israel would be just that it isn't feasible because it would most likely transfer the problem of the Palestinians to the Israelis and the Israelis will not agree to anything that doesn't allow them some gain for their crimes. Also I differentiate between country and people something you aren't doing. While I support the removal of the country of Israel I do not support the removal Jewish/Israeli people. In a just and fair world Israel would be dissolved and the Israelis would become hard working and peaceful Palestinian citizens You can try and twist my beliefs all you want but what you say I believe is not what I do.
no so, Gaza and the West bank could be viable without connection, if worse came to worse they could function as independent states. Connecting Gaza and the west bank would require destroying israel. that mot my wish, I said so to many times now for you not to have noticed. gee like getting rid of the settlers would not be something needed, or forbidding Israel for entry would not be something needed. I did you just keep ignoring them for forgetting, some posts ago you agreed with removing the settlers as I said then you contradicted your selfs and said I deny everything needed for Palestinian to have a state and prosper. I'm not blaming them for anything related to their victimized, they just disgust me, there breeding rate disgust me there fanaticism disgusts me, their victimization does not disgusts me, more of a sadden feeling. Where do you get this from, Its like if I say "the sky is blue" you say "well you keep saying the sky is red" You just can't keep saying I make stances that I actually make opposite to! a child knowingly gains? Yes and double yes! lots of shit happens that doesn't make it right, or perhaps you would understand it better if I said this: israel took over, it happens... now do you see the error of your logic? No that wrong, its always wrong from now to forever. Never do you need to kill the innocent with the criminals. So you advocate killing children too? Should have figured. Imagine if George Bush nuked the Arab world after 9/11 saying: "They attacked us their children's suffering by our nukes is their fault" Like when Palestinians terrorist hid behind children? Last time I look the israeli didn't do such a thing. Sure i can, scenario happens all the time: say my grandfather started a company and did not pay taxes, the company grows huge and the family is fabulously rich, the IRS wants there money in back taxes, we pay as its mild pay cut to us as we still have millions that would not have be possible for not the initial infrastructure set up by tax free actions of the grandfather. Or how about this, most American families are based on the land of dead natives. No one deserves genocide, not ever, no matter how evil I feel a people are I would not ever feel they deserve genocide... well actually I would kill of all of humanity but that would be force cybernetification but thats a whole different subject. the overall death toll in your plan would be higher. The Israelis don't kill many Palestinians, just oppress them, in they did the Palestinians would have negative population growth. Defend them selfs against what, aside for Israel they have no one they need to defend them selves against. Many microstates prosper without a military or any sizable chance of self defense. How is asking for them to have a state of there own against self determination? Little fact: Israel has jachshit for resources, they still made something of it. Gaza has the sea, the west bank has the dead sea. Except for the west bank and gaza, which is thus not all their claims. Its a realm? if it was a realm I could welcome you to it even if I was not in it. Like when Israel took out all the settlements from the gaza strip, or returned that child murder for some corpses, or gave back the Sinai to egypt, etc... No its infeasible because it would result is massive deaths and its wrong in the first place. No you support their death. in a world of fairies and unicorns yeah sure I would be for that, in reality they would die, you know it you have even said "they deserve it". You can try and twist my beliefs all you want but what you say I believe is not what I do.
No it wouldn't. Around 85% of southern Israel is barely inhabited. I don't think Its that much to ask of them to give it back to the people they stole it from.Most of that land is empty desert for the most part. and once again their you go offering a suggestion that would deny the Palestinians their right to self-determination. You say it isn't your wish yet your suggestions all entail that. I don't count gimmies. Like I said before gimmies don't count. Got to love the smell of bigotry. Yeah they are a low tech peoples tend to have a higher birth rate. Bigotry. Well when they were open and welcoming they got fucked. plus being abused tend to make people more radical and fanatic. and yet you supposed "solution" would leave them victims still. I get it from the fact your proposed "solution" would leave the Palestinians completely dependent on other countries for almost all essential resources. That allows those other countries to make them a vassal and control them. So no its not completely opposite of what your saying. It is the direct consequence of what you want to come to pass. When they inherit for the most part yes. and yet you have said nothing about them on this forum. Nothing is wrong with the logic. Your just taking part of the point because you can't refute the whole point. I am merely telling you that despite your idealistic and naive views sometimes justice is messy and sometimes people get fucked who did nothing wrong. Its bad but it is better than a miscarriage of justice. If you have a problem with the way the law works take it up with someone who can do something about it and leave it out of this debate. What the fuck is it with you and killing people. Nowhere did I say anything about killing people. I do advocate killing which you would have figured out if you would remove your head from your ass. I only think if it comes down to it and some blood needs to be shed to have a lower death toll at the end we shouldn't flinch from what a surprise you should have figured something I don't believe in. no that would be wrong because of the use of excessive and indiscriminate force. Though if children died because of normal warfare than it would have been their fault. I have yet to seen it proven. But of course you being neutral and all just take the Israeli line for truth. Last time I look the Israeli didn't do such a thing.[/QUOTE] Settling civilians including children in annexed land to prevent military action to retake it isn't using them as weapons against the people you took the land from to you? well guess what your wrong. but you do PAY what was owed. Something you are arguing the Israelis shouldn't have to. The debt is there and the debt is being payed. Actually people can deserve genocide. But just because something is deserved doesn't mean it is right to inflict. Hitler deserved to be tortured but it would have been wrong to do so. in the short term yes but not in the long term this is by far one of the most bigoted and moronic things I have ever seen. The Israelis on average kill several hundred Palestinians each year. and just because the Palestinians don't have negative population growth doesn't mean that they aren't being killed at a high rate. against other countries. other countries besides Israel would love to control that land. Because the nations surrounding them would defend them with out asking them to do what they want. No nation around Palestine would offer that with out getting control over the government. Also those other microstates also have resources. because you would have them not being able to control their own political future. Control of sea lanes, trade routes, and tourist atractions is no resources to you I see. which although conquered was never taken from them by force. They were still allowed to reside there. nevermind. All of which took international pressure. Not if done properly. only a bigot like you would say correcting a wrong is wrong in the first place. No I don't. I'm sorry if you can't tell the difference between a country and a people. You have been reported for your attacks and slander against me again. Do not continue. People deserve the consequences of their actions. Grow up and deal with it. I'm not twisting your beliefs. I am telling you they have consequences that you don't seem to want to admit. Just because you lack the wit to figure out what your beliefs entail doesn't mean they don't have those effects.
Your low number of posts indicates you haven't been here long. But stick around. In about a week she will have posted 70 more threads about how Israel is a Nazi state, and each of the threads will reach 1100 posts. Then you'll see what I mean. See, SAM suffers from OCD.
The fact is, Palestinians were not native, the came in after the Jews were exiled, so technically the Jews are the natives. SAM the difference between your fantasy and reality, is the fact that you think the Jews chose some random strip of land to take over and the palestinians were unlucky. The reality is that the Jews occupied it before and it is and always has been their land, they were just exiled for 2000 years, we owned it for 4,000 years and occupied it, 2 times as much as the Palestinians
So fedr808 I imagine you believe that the natives of America should take back their lands? Boot out the European thieves? Mexico should claim all of California as divine right. The aboriginols should reclaim ALL of Australia? Send the petty criminals back where they came from. What if everyone did that?
your right lucy, in reality the indians really should have the right to take back their land. But thats not here nor there, its off topic. But you are right, not everything is fair.
To me, the main problem out in the Middle East is everyone's ancestors owned that land at one time or another. According to the History books in school: We all supposedly came from Mesopotamia, in that case, I too can lay claim to that land. faljfadjf;ajd;alks people. Solution? Everyone just sit down and smoke a few bowls of peace pipe. It's the nicest illegal drug available. The tight azzed legal freaks can smoke that because it isn't heroin, the freaked out drugged up mafia/tribes/whatevers can smoke the ganja because.... Just chill and smoke people!!!!!!
And yet you seem to want the Pals to take back the land in the Middle East? The Native Americans shouldn't get their land back, but the Pals should? And that's fair ....how? Baron Max
How can anything be fair on this planet? Human nature/life itself makes fairness something of a difficult thing to implement. Maybe the human race would be better off inside a computer-matrix-reality where each person is the king/top man of their existence? But then you'd be interacting with artificial intelligence rather than actual consciousness.... life is life!
