Would there be Nazi university student activist groups instead ?

Right now most public schools in the U.S. deliberately omit the Communist democides of the 20th century, where tens of millions of innocent civilians were tortured and killed. BUT, students are beaten over the head (and rightfully so) about the Nazi genocide that killed less civilians, students should know about that evil.

In public universities many university "professors" preach the evils of Capitalism & the U.S., and they victimize minorities for how "Capitalism has done them wrong"; then they push that Socialism/Communism is the cure.

Additionally, Hollywood has pumped out hundreds of films about the evil Nazi's and their genocide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_films), yet Hollywood has produced maybe 1 film about any of the larger Communist democides.

Now imagine if the opposite was true. :

Imagine if U.S. public schools omitted the Nazi attrocities, yet beat students over the head about the larger Communist democides.
Imagine if university "professors" preached the "virtues" of Nazism and the "evils" of the free democratic capitalist U.S.

Imagine if Hollywood didn't produce any films portraying the evils of the Nazi's, yet they produced hundreds of films about the evils of Communism and films about the huge Communist democides.
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If the U.S. public were brainwashed the opposite of what they are now, and students were taught politically the opposite, do you think student activist groups would be the opposite too ?
Instead of pro-Communist university student groups, would we see pro-Nazi university student groups ?

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I have a feeling you have no idea what you're talking about. If you take a class in the modern history of China or Russia, I am sure these facts are discussed. Besides, they didn't happen all at once, but as a result of complex factors like agricultural reform, and they weren't done by one monolithic entity. In China, the cultural revolution was implemented by many millions of citizens acting independently.

 

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This thread isn't a debate about the historical details of the Mao's Communist democide (Read this about what you said and be enlightened :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong#Great_Leap_Forward).

This thread's about if pro-Communist university student groups would instead be pro-Nazi university student groups if the political spin in public education and Hollywood was completely reversed.

 

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1. I did learn about the death statistics, gulags, secret police, etc. of Communist Russia in school. I'm not sure why you seem to think this is skipped over.

2. Putting the word professor in quotation marks just makes you look like a pissy little kid.

3. I studied philosophy in university - including political philosophy - and had only one teacher who ever tried to strongly defend Marx or Lenin. Frankly, I had more professors who supported much of the philosophy that Hitler later said had an influence on him. So, again, I'm not sure what in the blue fuck you're talking about.

4. Also, you should try reading an academic journal once in a while. Some of the most prestigious, circulated and widely read journals (which receive most essays from university professors or lecturers) are some of the most hardcore free-market supporters in existence. Another bunch of them have been pretty hawkish in regards to foreign policy. So, again, I have no idea what you're talking about. I keep up to date on political, foreign policy and economic journals, and I haven't seen any sort of socialist leaning. For that matter, about 50% of the time I see "USSR" in an article, it's quickly followed by "and the way Reagan defeated them was..."

5. The only point I agree with you on is that there have been many more movies about Nazi terror. But, you'd need to be kind of blind to not see the reason why: Money.
(a) China is still, in name, communist, and they would blacklist such a film. That's 1.3 billion people taken out of your possible-viewer market. What businessman in their right mind would willingly take 1.3 billion people off the possible-customer list?

(b) Nazi films appeal more to American and European sensibilities. After all, we defeated the Nazis straight up. It was us-against-them in a war and we clearly conquered them. Reagan-dick-sucking aside, the reasons the USSR collapsed are many, and it doesn't really fit so easily into the "GOOD vs. EVIL" storyline (with normal story arch) that the Nazi storyline does. A few reasons the story is more difficult to put into movie format: it's too long (80 years compared to 6); it's morally ambiguous at times (Russia pulled way ahead for the first few years and frankly wasn't doing anything worse than what Americans and Canadians did to Japanese citizens, or what Britain did to Dresden); it requires a telling of a much larger tale (understanding the cold war requires an understanding of China, North Korea, Cuba, Latin America, etc.) before you can really see a whole picture; there was no denoument moment for the killings (in the Holocaust you can show the moment of Russians or Yanks letting Jews out, liberating the camps, giving them guns and food, etc. There was no climax moment like this in the Russian killings). In short, the Nazi experience is simply far more filmable and far easier to make into a 2 hour story. I would suggest you might be so obsessed with proving your point that you've completely overlooked some blindingly obvious points.

6. I also had plenty of professors who were more free-market than Reagan and more democratic than the US. So, once again, you either went to a really shit university or you simply have no idea what you're talking about and are just listening to Limbaugh and fox news.

7. That wikipedia article you cited on Mao-caused deaths is highly, highly contested and completely impossible to verify. I live in China, study China and speak Chinese - I assure you I know more about this one than you do. That article cites and Jung Chang book as proof of numbers and stories. That specific book has been torn to shreads by the academic community, and for very good reasons. She refused to cite the sources for any of her facts or statistics (which in any science means that your stats are then officially worthless). She actually often wrote things that contradicted each other in the book (i.e. Mao was so dirty all the time that he often blah blah blah.... Mao was so obsessed with cleanliness that he blah blah blah...), which doesn't exactly inspire much confidence in the writing quality. Her writing style was entirely misleading. She often begins a story or paragraph writing about a possibility (it is possible Mao was...), but by the second sentence has switched to the definite (and then Mao certainly....). As if that wasn't a problem enough, she often completely talks in the definite (Mao was in such and such a place at such and such a time) when there is absolutely no proof to support the claim in any of the literature. She took a quack and highly discredited doctor's word as gospel, refused to reveal her sources on any new statistics or information, completely ignored the role of every other member of the Communist Party (read this book and you'll think the CCP were a group of angles, though led by satan himself) and more than doubled most estimates of death tolls without providing any concrete evidence. In short, this book - while a fun read - is a total piece of shit and the academic equivalent of a trashy drug-store romance novel. It's a girls fantasy and not at all real scholarship.

I'm no fan of Mao Zedong. But that wikipedia article is objectively a piece of shit. You should do your learning somewhere else.

 

If you really live in China, do you really believe the Communist Party there is going to spill the beans (or allow anyone else to) on it's democide of tens of millions of civilians ?

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What schools did you go to that taught about the Communist democides in detail ? First time I've ever heard of that.

Anyhow, we're moving away from the point.

This thread's about if pro-Communist university student groups would instead be pro-Nazi university student groups if the political spin in public education and Hollywood was completely reversed.

 

Communism is a defensible political ideology that does not contain any mention of homocide as a necessary component. This is in contrast to Nazism, which encompases notions of racial purity and a distain for multiculturalism that places some people above others merely by birth, which is contrary to American values. I don't think there is anything unconstitutional about communism, we can have a communist party, but Nazism is unconstitutional.

 

That doesn't really answer the question :
This thread's about if pro-Communist university student groups would instead be pro-Nazi university student groups if the political spin in public education and Hollywood was completely reversed ?

 

I went to public school and university, and I never heard any political spin that supported communism. If the popular culture supported Nazism, then I'm sure that would be reflected in student groups, but then again that would mean there would also be no negative feelings attached to it.

 

Name and cite 7 University Professors to do this in the past 12 months - failure to do so will be taken as a retraction of this comment

 

Sure there probably would be. You brainwash a people one way or another and the proof comes out in the pudding.

 

Hey Cazzo - if you weren't sure what Tyler just handed you, here's a picture:

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I don't work with the Communist Party. I do charity work in China. You should probably try adopting a more humble tone instead of strutting around assuming everything.

Moreover I'm Canadian, and grew up in Canada and went to Canadian schools and university. I've been studying Chinese history and Chinese non-stop for two years and can authoritatively say that the book cited in that wikipedia page is schlock that no academic takes very seriously. Even wikipedia seems to know that...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao:_The_Unknown_Story

If you'd like to continue being a complete asshat who thinks he knows everything, then by all means go on. But don't pretend that anyone cares what you think.

Lawrence Park Collegiate High School in Toronto, Ontario and McGill University in Montreal, Quebec, sister school to Harvard and the highest ranked school in Canada for studies in the Arts.

Oh, and since you're trying to call out my credentials, what are yours? I can only assume if you're going to lament the communist overtones of American colleges you must surely have gone to one of the greatest institutions in our hemisphere. Like I did. Right?

And since you're so on the offensive about Russian terror, I assume you have close contact to those who suffered from the pogroms and killings. Like my great grandparents. Right?

And I've already explained why that's the case. Do you need more reasons?

1. As was stated by spidergoat, communism as an ideology does not require mass-killings, racism or political interrogation. What you are thinking of is Bolshevism or Leninism or Stalinism or Maoism, or something else along those lines. Each of which has been taught to me in an extremely negative light. Communism, on the other hand, was taught to me as one of many theories of economics and social justice, alongside capitalism, mixed systems and such. Like capitalism and Canada's own mixed-system, I was taught communism purely on it's form and then asked to judge it on my own. In university I experienced one teacher who argued on it's behalf, and a number who preached of it's evils.

2. You're simply wrong about the university culture being pro-communist. While certainly there are more leftists in young academic circles, I can safely say I was never encouraged to be a radical, bolshevik, revolutionary or communist. As was asked by another member, you should either prove your contention or accept that all you've stated is essentially worthless.

3. Hollywood has frequently shown US-Soviet interactions (CIA-films, etc.), though not killing fields. Again, I listed all the reasons why this is the case. You've simply chosen to ignore them and not respond to any sort of reason at all. The irony is that the reason there are few movies like this is the most capitalistic reason of all; money.

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I wrote you a long list of reasons, explanations and refutations. You chose to ask one question about one fact of my life, rather than respond to any of my answers to your question.

If you're not going to actually listen or discuss, you might as well just stand on a pedestal and lecture. You're not getting an inch of respect here anyway, so why not?

 

Hell, I agree with you. Sound's like his statement was pulled right from his ass.

 

Adding to spidergoat's comment, Communism is a socio-economic system molded on the doctrine of marxism. Communist doctrine does not preach democide, all of these accounts can be explained as faults of corrupt leaders who claimed to be communists, but who were in fact not.

 

The Killing Fields was an academy award winning field about the Cambodian genocide. Great film, you ought to check it out instead of posting huffy threads about Marxist wannabes. Most of them are about as committed as this lot.

 

You didn't read my post very closely, I said there was 1 Hollywood film about 1 of the Communist democides....

 

Where did I ever say you were a member of the Communist Party ?

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Rightttttttt, and Holocaust films roll in the big bucks huh ?

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1 person that answered what this thread's about, good for you.

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But Cazzo - you retracted that statement and admitted the thread was worthless by failing to cite any evidence

 

Some films about Nazis and the Holocaust:

Apt Pupil - Over $8 million box office
Life is Beautiful - $57 million+
The Pianist - $32 million+
Schindler's List - $96 million+
Sophie's Choice - $30 million+

So, um, yes. Films about the Holocaust make lots of money. You didn't think to check this before you asked the question?

You said:

Unless I was studying under their tutelage, or working for them, what on earth would what the CCP says and what I think have to do with each other? I suppose you could have just been asking a rhetorical question, but that would make your post even more meaningless.

And you continue to not respond to any of the many points you've been given. The assumptions in your original post are wrong, and you've been shown why they are wrong many times. But you absolutely refuse to address any of these points.

So, for the fifth time you've now been asked: can you prove university and college campuses are filled with communist teachers who ignore communist history?

That was not my experience at any school and I went to one of the top six schools in the world. I can only assume you also went to a top-ten school if you're insisting that good colleges are pushing a communist agenda.

Also, if you'd like to prove that university professors tend to be communist sympathizers, it would help you to show that academic journals (written mostly by professors) are full of communist sympathizing articles. You should produce a list of some of the most circulated economic, foreign policy and political philosophy journals (maybe 5 of each if you want to be thorough), and then show that a relatively high percentage of the articles in these journals are pro-communist.

Now, I happen to read many of these journals on a regular basis. So unless "we must guard the country against protectionist impulses" (the over-riding theme of most recent articles) translates in your head to "we must secure the global bolshevik agenda", then I think you'll have a hard time proving any of the many outlandish assertions you've made.