Adstar, You are not chief. You sound like a decent chap. Remember one thing, few know the truth. If you have had an encounter with Jesus, then you do know the truth, but don't rely on one book. In my opinion, the only part of the New Testament that is reliable is the Gospel of Luke. But everyone experiences different journies, don't think about fire or heaven too much is my advice.
I guess the point I was trying to make with "Ka Ka" (she still can't say her name Karen) would she go to heaven if she died right now? 55 years old...but can't understand her need to have Christ save her....does she burn?
You just told me in another thread that i had no humanity. and now you say i sound like a decent chap? Do you change your mind over things of God every few minutes too? The book is His Word. It is the truth. Then you don't know the truth. Well i don't think of Heaven or the lake of fire when i am away from this forum. Seems to me that it is athiests who are fixated on the subject of the lake of fire. Every few days it seems they post a new thread about it. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
I didn't say you had no humanity, do not misquote me. I change my mind, it's a good habit. Do you know it was a bunch of pagans that started the ball rolling, ever since the chruch(mainly catholic) has been raining in money? I never said I did. People are scared, believe it or not. The bible is a dangerous book. All Praise The Ancient Of Days ^^^^Do you know what that means?^^^^
I know what "All Blaze the Chronic of Daze" means. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! sorry I couldn't resist
Agreed Adstar, I made a mistake in my anger. I know you do have humanity and I guess it is wearing thin, like most. I worded my response wrongly. I don't believe a word Paul said, for now. Maybe this will change in time. The bible is a very serious book that is taking too seriously and is very often misunderstood, I have read it many times.
Paul may very well have been a constructed character created by an early conservative group of Christians. This person or people created more dogma and rhetoric than a group of modern day politicians. For God to leave Pauls teachings as a literal truth for people to ponder and fight over for thousands of yrs and then hold them accountable to it would indicate God would be nothing more than a very flawed and limited being,which I personally don't believe is the case. I'll go with the overall consensus of people that have claimed to have met Jesus or other religous figures thru NDEs. Apparently it seems God cares very little for man created religous idealogies and more about the spiritual nature of your heart/soul. Evangelists hate any idea of universalism as it offends their bigoted nature to divide and separate people.Pauls' teachings give them all the fuel they need to feed the fire. I believe the bible has spiritual truths but it's the often conflicting and idiotic commentary by it's authors that ruins it.
since the reformation all the churches have been backpedaling at a quite fenominal speed. It is now a god of the gaps because the modern day churches bend and change their religion in line with public opinion. It used to be Jesus or burn but now the churches are doing their best to get everybody to forget the existence of hell, the growing sceptical population suddenly begs the problem that the christian religion sentences 90% of the worlds inhabitance to eternal torture. The christian religin is desperatly trying to give an all loving god who is flufy and forgiving. Jesus or Burn? was the rule implied at first but now it is more moderate, this however implies that god himself has changed his mind over the matter and this is aparently imposible so either the origional still stands and the church lies or god changed and therefore is weak
Interesting: I agree with you in the case of fire and brimstone preachers who preach it to their congregations. If one believes Jesus they are saved and they should have no fear of the lake of fire. If someone is trying to induce that fear within them then they are seeking to undermine their belief in Jesus. So yeah i am dead against preaching fire and brimstone to the converted. Its wrong. But those who do not believe Jesus should rightly be in great fear of the Lake of Fire. So a bit of fire and brimstone is ok as a last ditched attempt to motivate them to consider Jesus with a serious investigation. Oh and there is nothing wrong with having great Zeal for the Word of God. Hate for others because they are different is also wrong. Someone can give the message of the Lake of Fire to another without hating them often it is done in an attempt to bring them to be saved. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Applicable in the context of the variation on the theme I think the passage is applicable in the context of the variation considered by Adstar and Jan Ardena. Additionally, I had conversation today with a Seventh-Day Adventist with whom I find myself in agreement more than one might expect. On this occasion, we were able to agree on a few points, among which one might be relevant: That belief in Jesus is more than just believing that He will save you, but rather demands certain conduct of the believer. Indeed, this theme is reinforced several times in the Gospels, perhaps most prominently in the Sermon on the Mount: "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5.43-48) Thus, in terms of the topic post— —I would suggest that acceptance of Jesus includes reflections thereof in one's conduct. Plenty can "accept Jesus"; it is much more difficult to make that acceptance genuine. Damn that Original Sin .... ___________________ Notes: Bible: Revised Standard Version. http://quod.lib.umich.edu/r/rsv/
Ad, No offense meant, but Christians like you are the reason Christianity is losing popularity. All you did was reiterate the point that Cybernetics is making above. Christians are desparately trying to make god out to be benevolent and merciful when it's obvious that he's not. And if he's not, then he really doesn't seem much different than the devil. You even said it yourself, in the bold above, 'Choose Jesus as your savior or burn in hell'. Most people who arent' spinless and scared, would be like, 'who wants to follow a god that tries to motivate his subjects with fear?'
It always boggles my mind when people say things like this. How could a person who makes an honest mistake and believes in the wrong god (or no god), but who otherwise leads a good life possibly deserve eternal torture? It seems to fly in the face of the idea of a "just" god. It's one of the most unjust things I could ever imagine. The fact that you have apparently managed to convince yourself that it can actually be "just" for good people to end up tortured eternally indicates to me that your belief in christianity has deeply twisted your mind. Anyone with even the tiniest sense of justice should be horrified at the idea of a god who condemns good-intentioned people to eternal torture for making an honest mistake in their religious beliefs.
