Who can sing?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Carcano, Nov 1, 2008.

  1. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Two questions:

    1. What does it mean scientifically when somebody has a great singing voice. Can a singing voice be scientifically identified by analyzing the overtone spectrum?

    2. Is there an anatomical difference between people who can sing and people who cant?
     
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  3. Eidolan Registered Senior Member

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    I'm guessing that scientifically it means that they are able to sing with good tone and intonation, and, in the case of group singing, with good balance and blend.

    I don't think there is an anatomical difference between people who can sing and people who can't or that there is a specific type of voice that is better than another. Those differences are cultural. Either you know how to sing or you don't, and people either like your voice or they don't, but its all culture when it comes to other people, and its practice when it comes to you.
     
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  5. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Yes but is there a scientifically identifiable way of distinguishing a 'good' tone?

    Being able to stay on pitch is a different matter.
     
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  7. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    I don't think it's anatomical, I think it's definately a mental thing. I've noticed there's a certain type of personality that can always sing- funny people. It's seriously uncanny.

    I think possibly observant people who listen and notice little things in life in general tend to be able to sing. Like deaf people can't even talk properly, that's kind of an extreme extension. People who, aren't necessarrily deaf, but just don't really pay attention or notice the subtle rhythms and melodies of music (and related things too, like the subtle nuances of being cool) tend to not be able to sing.
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I doubt there is a scientific basis for determining that Skip James - or Bob Dylan, even - is a better singer than Luciano Pavarotti.

    But many well-informed people would say so.

    The kind of precise muscle memory and resilience of ligament etc necessary to recreate the exact vocal resonating cavity that amplifies specific remembered formants or produces a particular desired tone and holds it at volume, is only available in a few percent of the species - just as the ability to balance on one hand easily enough that one can employ the trick as a mere part of a more complicated maneuver is only found in some of us.
     
  9. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    I think theres a number of factors which all have to be present.

    1. Range of pitch...Lemmy of Motorhead doesnt even qualify in this category, with a range of maybe five notes max.

    2. Vibrato...a slight variation in pitch that wavers on sustained notes. Robin Gibb and Dolly Parton for example have a very FAST natural vibrato. Gives the voice a shimmering quality.

    3. Intonation...a mental sense of relative pitch or, even more rare...perfect pitch.

    4. Projection...the ability to belt it out.

    5. Confidence...we all know this ALONE isnt enough, just from watching
    American Idol.

    5. Tone...most mysterious of all qualities. Pianos and guitars sound different because of differences in tone.
     
  10. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think that scientists can create a experiment to determine what a great singer really is. I feel that is determined by those people that listen to them and enjoy their singing. Bad singers would just fade away as time goes by. Many people try to show us that they can sing but many times the only ones they sound good to is only themselves.
     
  11. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    None of those silly karaoke machines seem to ever work when they rate how well you sing something.
     
  12. Search & Destroy Take one bite at a time Moderator

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    Almost everyone in China can sing well. The tonal language and KTV popularity are the obvious reasons.
     
  13. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    What about Death Metal singers? How do you judge them objectively?
     
  14. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Kind of a oxymoron isn't that? Death Metal Singer
     
  15. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    The most bizarre example is the singer in Opeth...forget his Swedish name???

    I say bizarre because he really has a great singing voice. Its almost comical how their excellent songs are suddenly ruined by all that amorphous growling.

    Doesnt even matter what hes growling about because you cant even make out more than a few words.
     
  16. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    Objectively speaking, singing can be measured. If you play notes on a piano. The measurement is the accuracy of an individual's voice when matching a particular note. Tone, pitch, volume, or whatever. All measured by some sort of device. But the answer to your original question, indeed an individual's singing ability (accuracy to harmonic sound) can be done.
     
  17. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I know one thing for damn certain, I cannot sing worth a crap!

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  18. Eidolan Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not sure how to exactly define tone, but I do know that it has to do with the temperature of the instrument and environment.

    Its interesting to think about though.
     
  19. draqon Banned Banned

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    mathematically a great song/music is related to a "harmonic series" in math
     
  20. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, every note has the same overtone series. What characterizes TONE is the wave shape and the different volumes of the series.

    This is why A sharp sounds different on a piano than a guitar.

    For some reason the human mind perceives some tones as good and others as unpleasant.
     
  21. draqon Banned Banned

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    probably matches the human sound frequency...perhaps has to do a lot with how well cochlea perceives these vibrations of sound in the water, if it is not disturbed it perceives it as good...if it is rhytmic and soft it perceives it well too.

    Have you noticed how people are relaxed when they listen to smooth jazz or classical music and how people are usually tense and ready-to-fight when they listen to rap and r&b? The way each person perceives the music depends on the cochlea perception of vibrations in the fluid within it, if the vibration do not cause harm, the music is good, if the vibration cause harm the music is bad.

    thats my opinion, of course.

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  22. stateofmind seeker of lies Valued Senior Member

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    So you think Smells Like Teen Spirit was a great song solely because of its harmonic series?

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  23. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    Knowing someone has a nice voice is like knowing when something is porn. "You know it when you hear it" Just because you have perfect pitch doesn't make you a great singer. I went to school with a guy who had perfect pitch, but his voice was terrible. Which would make him a bad singer.
     

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