Star Wars vs Star Trek

Well Alderaan doesn't produce ships for one. And Corellion Gunships were found on both sides of the civil war.

Kuat drive yards does indeed make warships, but they are under the thumb of the empire. Any vessels likely under order wiould be defensive, anti-pirate, or part of the regional governers armada.

One thing that may have sealed the fate of Alderaan was the colony of Camaasi, one of the founding member races of the jedi order, and a widely respected and revered race. Leaving them alive could have rebuilt the Jedi Order in record time. So there were many reasons to destroy alderaan.

Actually, like I noted before. The Trade Federation had to land clear on the other side of the planet from the Naboo. They had to travel overland to get to the area the naboo controlled. This suggests for the parts of the world controlled by the Naboo there were shields.
It is likely given geonosis they wanted to keep the industry hidden. After all it was hidden underground where scanners had a hard time detecting it. Putting up shields would just have advertised the factory presence.
As for Coruscant, the daring raid to capture the CHancellor had already taken place tand CIS battle plan was just escape. The Clone armies where not too concerned with accidently bombing Coruscant with ship debris.

 

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actually during the attack on DS9 Veyoun (or however you spell that name) is surprised to find out that the station's shield are not useless against their polaron weapons and Ducat (spelling) states something like never to underestimate federation's research. it is lated evidential that most if not all the star fleet instalations and ships have been modified in such a maner. this indicates a state wide modofocation program.

 

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actually if the universe in SW (empire/republic) is anywhere near as advanced in ther C&C doctrine, they'd have this thing called frend or foe confirmation, so to stop you from shoting your own people by mistake. so the alderaanians would know that's an Imperial thingy that just hyperspaced in their orbit. as for the shield interacton, it's highly speculative. is there or isn't? there are no shield interactions on SW, why should there be one now? to me it looks like ilumunaton from the huge carrier beam or whatever that is (the call it a super laser, but we both know that's no laser).

 

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1. to me the only reason to even remoatly justify the destruvtion of Alderaan is mear demonstration of power. everything else could have been conducted with a conventional ocupaton force, it would have ben cheeper and you'd not loose a perfectly good planet.
2.why did the automatic planetary shield raising mechanism did not work? after all an armada just hyperspaced oh the capital???!!!

 

Well, obviously. They explicitly stated this in the movie. I don't recall the exact dialog, but one of the head Imperial guys basically says "After we blow up your planet everyone else will know that we are the ultimate power in the galaxy and realize how futile resistance is." When Leia tells them that the rebels are hiding on Dantuine, the guy replies "Dantuine is too insignificant to make an effective demonstration." So yeah, there's no question that they were just blowing up Alderan as a demonstration of how powerful they were.

Remember, Palpatine was controlling everything on both sides and he wanted the raid to happen. He probably just arranged for shield generators to fail at the right time.

 

That doesn't mean they can't have shields. You don't have to have them up unless an enemy is coming at you and if most planets have it for protection, why would everyone think it' so odd?

You realize that using GT firepower in the upper atmosphere would have basically have killed everyone on Coruscant right?:bugeye:

 

We have no evidence that he did though.

Could there have been a shield? Yes, there probably was over the important areas of the city. But they wouldn't be immune to entire fleets and they don't block physical objects. This is supported by the fact that the Death Star's shields did the same thing; they don't block physical objects. Only the later Death Star II had these shields; which were apparently specially modified to protect against physical objects and required it to be stationed on a small moon with a big ass dish.

 

it's not the matter of evidence. i've watched the Clone Wars. everyone is obviously surprised by the separatist raid and no one is surprised the shield did not go up. in Dune every ona was shouting "get that shield up!" when the Harkonnens raided them. here every one plays cool. you might argue they don't know the shield is down but then how are the raiders landing in the first place? eighter there is a shield but it does nor stop landings, or there is a shield that stops landings but it is not on a planetary shield, or there is no shield at all.

 

Um, planetary shields do not protect against people or objects physically passing through. So yes, the shield could be up, but it wouldn't really stop an enemy force from landing on the planet. Which is what happened. And while I scoff at the idea of a full on planetary shield, they have proven to create fairly large shields at least a few miles wide, very possibly wider. However, these shields cannot stop a force from landing on the planet.

So even if they could withstand the punishment of 5 ISDs and 1 SSD (which is actually impressive simply by the sheer volume of the SSD), it still wouldn't stop the first photon torpedo from vaporizing anything beneath it. Not to mention that something equel on the UFP side would be vastly more devistating. UFP starships are armed with 100 megaton torpedoes and the Daystrom Institute already proved that the GCS's main phaser array has 68,000 TW behind it. In other words, about 16.3 megatons per shot from a Galaxy class starship.

 

You can actually see what looks like a planetary shield flickering briefly when the death star's superlaser hits Alderan in the newest DVD releases of Episode IV. Some of the green light (or plasma, or whatever the hell it's supposed to be) sort of "splashes" above the planet and there's a shimmery shield-type effect around the planet at an altitude that's far too high for it to be anything having to do with the atmosphere.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Lucas added it in for the newest release of the movie, since as I recall it's explicitly stated that Aleran has a planetary shield in New Hope's novelization.

Maybe someone more industrious than me can post some screen shots.

 

It said in the novel? Do you have a quote for that? I am curious.

Needless to say, no planetary shield has been shown in the movies, nor is there a reason as to why Alderaan; a Imperial dominated world, would have a planetary shield when they were in charge. This is like basically saying that slaves would have hand guns despite the fact that the slavers want to hold onto their rule; those two ideas cannot co-exist. If they have guns, you are not really their masters. They are openly rebelling against you. And if the planet did have something like that...why wouldn't the Empire be able to shut it down? It would be their shield generators.

So really, there is no reason as to why the planet would be shielded.

 

No, I don't even own the novel - I read it a loooong time ago. But as I said, I'm pretty sure it's stated in there. Maybe someone who still has it could provide a relevant quote? I might be wrong about this.

As I said, the latest edition does seem to show a shield - probably something that Lucas added in.

The empire didn't dissolve the Senate until the very beginning of Episode IV. From the end of Episode III up until the beginning of Episode IV, every planet in the Senate was still legally self-governing, and would have every right to build a shield if they wanted to.

See above.

Remember, at the beginning of New Hope you basically have this strong central Imperial authority with a kick-ass fleet that no one can match, but each planet is still more-or-less independent. The empire now needs to establish its dominance - destroying Alderan is a big part of that.

 

Brilliant plan, feds. Modify all your ships the same way, so after they get their first few shots off, they all become useless.

 

wow

You know what stuns me warsies? is how amazingly u guys have no way to think outta the box much like star wars itself as a matter of fact. What makes the killer difference between star wars and star trek especially with the borg it the fact of adaptation. Star trek HAS to adapt to survive, that's what they do and its no surprise because there are so many freaking super powers. The borg onslaught against the federation in the first attack caused a huge mass of production of better ships and weapons. Star wars has NO inspiration for creativity the only major research base is in the stinking maw and no one cares about it. Overrall thousands of borg ships may fall but lemme tell you by the time you guys have had a fun time killing so many the borg would have found that adding more armor orm adding more shields will help and you will all be slaughtered because you guys have no clue how to remotely modify your ships in such a way.

We have social proof of this kind of thing all over the world. Things like the kentucky rifle in the civil war, the americans needed something to outrange the british and this was born not because someone felt like it but it was needed. Like africa where each tribe had its own land so no one had any need to invent anything beyond a basic spear.

Also the death star is great at cutting through a planet but that is way too much power to cut through a ship, itll go in one way and out the other.

Overrall the creativity level in star wars is miniscule. And if any of you wanna argue this than get your own expert sociologist because thats where i learned about these social trends and they are undeniable.

 

Dune

No one ever responded to this but i mean really, how funny would that look if han solo shot his blaster at a dune tank that was shielded and it blew up like an a bomb? I mean how freaking entertaining would that be? If you do not know the shields in dune have a flaw that when hit by ANY sort of laser they blow up with the power of an a bomb

 

Well, I've been in this debate a while, and I think someone would have mentioned it by now, rather than just going with a simple VFX error.

As for Lucas adding in a shield; that's unlikely. I don't see why he would care to. The superlaser is a strange unknown weapon; we have no idea how it works or how it may act once it hits the atmosphere of a planet.

Granted, that could be the problem, but you wouldn't need the Death Star to blast through. A better weapon would in fact have been a much smaller, but more producable siege ship that is designed to just take down shields; similar to a batting ram. The Death Star is a weapon of terror; not a siege weapon.

Actually, given how unhappy Naboo was at being blockaded, I don't think that's as true as some would believe. True, you can live on a planet well enough, but thousands of people will lose their jobs and the local economy would suffer horribly. Not to mention, that they can just land ships; the shields don't cover the entire planet, nor do they prevent craft from landing.

 

...Wait, what?

What in God's name are you talking about?:bugeye:

The Dominion are not as adaptive as the Borg are; thus modifying your shields to prevent the enemy from bypassing them is intelligent. They also did the same with the Breen power draining weapon.

 

I can think of a single ship that, on it's own, could dominate the entire empire.

Kremlin Timeship.

 

so altering your ships to protect you from a weapon that previously compleatly bypassed them is a bad thing? have you gone bananas?

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on the dune vs laser question, i'm not an expert on dune Sardonic is, but someone mentioned the dune's lasers are not really lasers but based on holtzamn's effect (just as their shields are) and when these two come in contact, bad things happen.