Star Wars vs Star Trek

That's transphasic. Also, I hate to keep sounding like a broken record, but the Borg cubes are at least hundreds of times stronger than UFP starships. I took an entire fleet to take one down. Federation starships are about a hundred times stronger than ISDs.

And this isn't wank. An Imperial Star Destroyer's largets guns are a megaton in yield. Their medium guns are half that and their light guns aren't even a tenth of that. A Super Star Destroyer is something like 17x larger and yet we still saw that a handful of ships focusing their firepower upon it could still deal her a heavy blow. What's worse is that the enormous size makes the thing a large target, so even if we were to say that the ship was up to UFP firepower, it would horribly overmatched due to the sheer number of ships that equel said power.

A turbolaser is a powerful weapon; just not what most prowars debators make it out to be. The power of such a ship in modern days could fuck over every nation on the planet just on its own. Even six of those turrets would have an output of 12 megatons per volley. That's not even mentioning its more numerous medium turbolasers, which are about half a megaton and have a much greater recharge.

The problem is that they seem to think it matches Federation technology, which just isn't true. Their society has been stagnant for hundreds of years. Thousands possibly. Their society shows it. Look at the build and design of their weapons, war engines, and starships. They are meant for a soceity of long ago, not what Star Wars is today. The reason for such stagnation is obvious; no outer threat. The same thing has happened to the Federation. After the hostilities with the Klingons came to an end, they dismantled their fleet and turned warships into science, diplomatic, and exploration ships. The Cardassian war saw the creation of the Akira, Steamrunner, Norway, Saber, New Orleans, Nebula, and the Galaxy. Granted, starships like the Ambassador class existed that soon gave rise to the TNG line. Then they went stagnant again during the peace afterwards. This is even in spite of Cardassian hostilities because at that point, the Cardassians were a joke to Federation power; one Nebula was able to run havoc all over the Cardassian border before the Enterprise D managed to restrain her. The Borg attack also inspired the Defiant line, but it fell silent once a lack of invason became apparent. Later, it was revived to bring forth designs like the Prometheus and Soveriegn designs.

We see the same thing popping up in Star Wars. During the war, we saw that the CIS planned on building the Death Star as a secret weapon to beat the enemy. We also saw advancement in droid technology; droids dedicated to actual warfare rather than defending cargo on trade ships. We even saw fighters, some of which I'm sure were old, but some surely new.

Then cut to the Empire years later...and nothing has really changed. Sure we have the ISD line, larger war machines for ground combat, Storm Troopers, and the like...but they're all worse than their former versions. ISDs are cheaply built with 70s interfaces, war machines are horribly, horribly designed, and the Storm Troopers are almost as incompetent as the Clone Troopers. Although, given the Clone Wars movie, I might have to take that back.

But this isn't to say everyone got really stupid, but rather that the Empire uses its warships for the purpose of dominating the galaxy, not using the warships to defend against outsiders. The cheap desgin is likely because the mass production of such a series was costly and forced the Emperor to make the design and interfaces more basic.

The Federation is more futuristic, but that has a little less to do with the technology than it does with the fact that Star Trek is all about a big, brigth future, which is what man dreams about; a bigger, brighter, and better future. Star Wars is all about fighting wars. Incompetently.

 

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Speices 8472. Nuff said.

Although I know a better race of beings just need to research them a bit more if you don't beleive planet killing, borg murdering ships that regenerate faster than the borg can is enough to go on.

 

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Travelers... Nuff Said.

Warp 15 anyone?

 

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Why do you guys think Borg are dangerous?
Aren't they just space zombies?

Shoot em with lead. In the head. Makes em dead.

Or stab them.

If the Star Trek guys are so smart, why don't they use swords?

 

Heh... simple.

Might work once or twice vs the borg... but 99% of other species have deflectors that prevent collisions... so your sword would transfer the energy of the shield into your body and bzzaap!

 

Because the last guy who tried to get into hand to hand who wasn't Worf, Picard, Data, or someone important was tossed into a bulkhead. This is of course, not to mention that they wear armor and thus would offer them not only limited protection, but hte fact that they can regenerate from massive physical trama is pretty telling. Futhermore, they aren't trained to use swords save for a few of them. They'd basically just be making blind hackings without the skill or the strenght to properlly wield them. This is of course, ignoring the fact that they move through enclosed hallways, which while not crampled, is somewhat inssuficient for amatures with swords to be swinging their weapons.

As for guns, again, you come into the problem of the Borg being able to regenerate. Furthermore, they tend to fing ways to adapt to weapons that they find pose a threat. Even if you argue that they can't adapt a shield to it, there are numerous ways to adapt a drone to it. Or simply start firing back. Not to mention that again, most officers aren't trained to use them. Sure they might know how to use pistols and the like, but Troi wasn't even knowledgable enough to know you need to cock a god-damn shotgun before you can fire again (Fistfull of Data's). Again, this is technology that has been outdated for over three hundred years. Sure you might have a few who hold interest or even know how to use such weapons, but that isn't the mainstream and having people use weapons they aren't familiar with that could potentially cause side effects (hitting a conduit perhaps) that prove to be very dangerous because the crew isn't familiar with that type of weaponry and the consequences of using those weapons. It would be like modern soldiers using muskets; they would want to use them like modern guns and you just can't. Their accuracy is horrible, incredibly poor re-load, and horrid range compared to modern weapons. Evidence points to the fact that the Federation officers are assisted in combat by auto-targetting computers programmed into the phasers. Not to mention that said phasers don't have any recoil; just point and click. The result of going back to automatic weapons such as a machine gun would be a horribly bad idea. Their accuracy would be shit, they would handle the weapons poorly, their aim would be off, and a great deal of other things. Meanwhile, the Borg work on making tactical drones (they have tritanium armor; the stuff used in ST ship hulls, no gun or phaser is going to do shit against those things)

 

Quite elegantly put. Borg have shown zero ability to adapt to any weapon other than the odd frequency dependant phaser and disrupter type weaponry used by the alpha quadrant. Hell, Worf with a sword is more of the threat to the Borg than a platoon of secuirity troopers with phaser rifles.

 

So basically Fleet has no ability to adapt. They couldn't design Gauss or railguns that use super accelerated projectiles to deal immense physical trauma? Or fire. I bet using fire would kill 'em fast.

 

Space swords, dude.

[edit]
Or just have an AT-AT step on 'em.

 

very keen opservation Flec, finally some new point in these 650+ pages.

good to see ya all guys. nice to know you keep this topic alive. special regards to TWS, Saq, Athens, Enterprise and Kit

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keep it up, i'll try to track this as often as possible but "You see my new jobs a hassle and the kids have the flu, But its sure nice talkin to you"

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Of course, this is ignoring the fact that the drones aren't what you need to be worried about; it's the ship that cuts your ship up bit by bit and assimilates it.

 

...No. That is not what I am saying. The Fedeation (not the fleet) has easily shown on countless occassions to adapt to enemy technology or tactics.

All of which are still likely to be hundreds of years old in design and would require the training for officers to use them against an enemy that hadn't attacked in about six years or so. Not to mention who would probably find a way to adapt. Not that of course, using things like guns would likely come into play considering that forty starships couldn't stop one of them.

 

Does anyone remember that the drones are not used for planetary invasions?:bugeye:

Does anyone actually remember that they tractor entire cities up from orbit and basically eat them?

 

any idea where I can find a quote to back that up one way or another?

and theirs still the tidbit from Wong- New Republic propagandists made the ludicrous claim that Alderaan was totally unarmed at the time of its destruction, even though it had placed warship construction orders with, among others, Kuat Drive Yards (ref. Slave Ship).

though that looks to be from the EU and thus may be inadmissible.

so, circumstantial evidence of theatre shields on naboo. Geonossis looked like it had become important, seems like it should have been given a shield to go with the industry. I guess the threa to couruscant didn't become apparent untill AFTER the battle was over? remember those ships are fighting in the atmosphere. i'm pretty sure the Wookiee battle was stated in the movie to take place on Kashyyyk.

maybe, how well known was the death star prior to Alderaan? had any of the leadership seen the plans?

 

hey. if anyone on Alderaan had any idea what that thing was they would play nice loyalist so to avoid being shot at, if they had no idea what it was they would have no reason to raise any shields. it would be like mobilising the national guard when the presidential guard arives in town.

 

Indeed... was a terrifying sight too.

 

No, it's just one ship, with endless variations of this theme:
"Modify the phase variance!"

Yeah.
Pwnd.

 

Not at all.

 

Fine, give us the evidence to support this claim. That that is all the ships do in every situation.

Good luck.

 

actually considering that something hyperspaced into system that had the mass of a moon and was moving towards your planet don;t you think automatic systems would have popped the shields on. I mean really we see evidnce of a shield interaction with the Death Star weapon, we don't need to come up with a reason for them to turn the shields on.