Sharon + Arafat = bloody mess The complete lack of compromise on both sides is the reason people are dying. The US should continue to back off its support of israel and use its influence to get moderate peaceful leaders for both countries.
Out of curiosity - were you aware of your source? I believe, Adam, that on a fair amount of occasions you have questioned sources of articles which seemed to show only the good side of Israel and pointed out that they were from Israeli or pro-Israeli sources. So did you know your own was, in it's own words, "the top informer of the Israeli-Palestinian struggle from the Palestinian point of view"??? What's the title on the top Adam, I think I forgot?? "Against the Israeli Machine"? http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/07/brooks.htm http://www.ourjerusalem.com/history/story/history20020528.html That second one is about as bias as the source you provided. "(Sadam is) the defender of the Arab nation, of Muslims, and of free men everywhere." - Yasir Arafat Edit to add: That quote is from 1991 during the Gulf War
Tyler Any your point is? Yes, it's a biased source. Now have you any way of refuting Sharon's military record? Does that little rant of yours change the fact that he slaughtered a good many civilians while in the military? I hate to be the one to tell you this Tyler, but Israel is a very crapulent country. They slaughter civilians like you eat breakfast, just a normal part of the daily routine.
I recently read something that struck me very hard. "An evil person is someone who thinks they're always right." I've seen you post alot of things around these boards, Adam. And to be quite honest they're deeply opinionated. You're always saying something like "this country should be wiped off the face of the Earth. Or wow, Australia is the best damn country in the WORLD!!! You even go as far as to saying which people you would kill/and or injure because of what they do or who they are. I don't trust that any human being is perfect. Sharon nor You. Now onto the subject. Israel doesn't "slaughter" human beings. I'd like you to actually prove that they do. Israel's a democratic country with law and a strong sense of social justice. Why is it that arabs can live freely in Israel, without fear of discrimination or of all things being murdered, while an Israeli can't even walk the streets of the west bank without knowing they have a good chance of being killed? Many, but not all palestianians hate Jews in particular. It reminds me of how this palestinian lady my grandmother knew. She was always nice towards my grandma and thought of her as very friendly. One day she found out that my grandmother's Jewish and started giving her dirty looks. Practically spitting in her face as though my grandma is evil for being Jewish. My point - A majority of palestians loathe Jew's in General. It's not Israel they really hate. It's like having an incredibly rich neighbor next door. It's nothing to do with the house. They probably feel Jelous, and as though they should be sharing in the wealth. I've repeatedly said that I dont doubt they could be just as wealthy had they invested in education and health instead of hate, 50 years ago. The real problem is that arafat doesn't want a compromise. He thinks he deserves 100% of the land, and supports those who want 100% of Israel (under the table of coarse). In reality, they could've had peace by now prospered greatly if it wasn't for they're greed... I support compromise, don't you? Israel an island of Hope. Very few Israeli's don't support the country, though self criticism is a past time. And I'd be willing to bet that many arabs also admire the state of Israel, shiite Muslims for example. They like a state of peace. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with compromise? Anyways, as you can see I'm delightfully tired from a hard days work. I think I'll collapse right here. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Now onto the subject. Israel doesn't "slaughter" human beings. Is that so? What about the UN workers they killed last week in Jenin? Oh, they were terrorists too, just like all the other women, children, old men, and other various civilians? Yes, I see now. Israel's a democratic country with law and a strong sense of social justice. So what? Russia is too, but they have slaughtered whole towns in Chechnya and continue to do so. Why is it that arabs can live freely in Israel, without fear of discrimination or of all things being murdered, Where the hell did you get this? Oh, I remember, you're an Arab, and you lived in Israel, and you felt quite comfortable. Yes, it's all very clear now. while an Israeli can't even walk the streets of the west bank without knowing they have a good chance of being killed? I've read quite a few webpages of Israelis who said they became leftists after carrying pro-Israel banners in Hebrew in West Bank cities and shouted slogans in Arabic, and everybody was very kind to them. Hmm? Hmm? HMM? Many, but not all palestianians hate Jews in particular. Hmm... I wonder why they hate me and my mother? Maybe because pro-Israelis keep claiming (when it benifits their cause) that Jews=Israel=Jews, causing the Palestinians themselves to think that? It is a very easy thing to think, since they are so closely related. It reminds me of how this palestinian lady my grandmother knew. She was always nice towards my grandma and thought of her as very friendly. One day she found out that my grandmother's Jewish and started giving her dirty looks. Practically spitting in her face as though my grandma is evil for being Jewish. My point - A majority of palestians loathe Jew's in General. It's not Israel they really hate. It's like having an incredibly rich neighbor next door. It's nothing to do with the house. They probably feel Jelous, and as though they should be sharing in the wealth. Oh yes, that must be it, and the over 1000 Palestinian civilians that have died from Israeli fire in the past 2 years (if you wanna say 400 are terrorists, then you still have over 1000) just make them feel even more jealous of the wealthy neighbour... NO YOU FREAKIN IDIOT! DUH! I've repeatedly said that I dont doubt they could be just as wealthy had they invested in education and health instead of hate, 50 years ago. Did they invest in hate? Or were they stripped of all chances to invest in anything when 1. Israel was created and 2. Arab nations attacked Israel, and Israel took even more land? Hmm? The real problem is that arafat doesn't want a compromise. He thinks he deserves 100% of the land, and supports those who want 100% of Israel (under the table of coarse). Well yes, before the Jews came back during WWII, almost 100% of that land was inhabited by Arabs. Take a trip to a refugee camp. Ask little kids what country they live in, they will say "Palestine". Ask them what town/village they are from, they may very well tell you the name of a village that hasn't existed 30 years. In reality, they could've had peace by now prospered greatly if it wasn't for they're greed... Is that so? Greed? I think it's the Jews who are greedy. Let me put it this way: Most Americans flee the US because of Canadian invaders. The vast Canadian empire soon collapses, and what was once the US becomes part of Mexico. 1500 years later, Mikreunja takes posession of the US after WW1233. During WW1234, Americans are being persecuted in Ichenglaojeu, and a massive genocide takes place. Many Americans flee to what used to be the US, and are happy to be free of the Ichenglai genocidal movement, but millions more become victims. After the war, Americans flock like crazy to what was the US over a millenium and a half ago. When the Mikreunjans begin to decolonise North America, they plan on giving Gaalifoona, Miwees, Iiskoos, Saos, and Voorida (all parts of what used to be the US) to the Mexicans, who are a majority in all of these regions. But Iiskoos has many American immigrants, and they want independance. Fearing conflict, many of the ethnic Mexicans flee. Then a war takes place between the Americans and the Mikreunjans, in which the Mikreunjans end up ceeding Iiskoos to the New World Order to decide what to do with it. The NWO decides to divide Iiskoos into a Mexican state and an American state. There are still many Mexicans living in both states, and they become enraged. The other newly-independant Mexican nations attack the new nation of America, and America responds by taking the Mexican state of Iiskoos. A few decades of repression later, a group of radical Mexicans becomes militant, organising such geurilla activities as suicide bombings of American restaurants, etc. Now, here, I see that the people who should've gotten the nation was the Mexicans, and the Americans should've been treated as is any immigrant group in modern-day Canada. The part about Israel being a Jewish nation more than a millenium ago may be true, but it is totally irrelevant to this situation. It has been more than one generation, more than two, more than ten, more than thirty generations since most Jews originally fled Israel, and now they all wish to return AND get an independant nation? Ooh, ooh! I forgot to mention SETTLERS. They are the modern-day embodiment of Israeli greed from the time of British rule. Yes. I support compromise, don't you? I do too, but I think Israel should also have to give back the land it stole in 1949, which has since been annexed. Israel an island of Hope. Very few Israeli's don't support the country, though self criticism is a past time. An island of hope? Many Arab nations that aren't democratic are very near to democracy, with dissenters getting more and more support. And many Arab nations already have democracy. And I'd be willing to bet that many arabs also admire the state of Israel, shiite Muslims for example. Shiites don't like Israel any more than Sunnis do. They are divided on many issues, but this is a situation of repression of Muslims. Many Palestinians are Shiites. Israel doesn't care if the Arabs they kill are Sunni or Shiite. They like a state of peace. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with compromise? Nothing. But Palestinian refugees in other nations should get the right of return. Just like Jews from around the world are given priority for immigration to Israel. Oh, and as for not including whatever plot of land, be sure to remember how the head of the leading Irish seperatist movement accepted and agreement in which the three northernmost counties were to continue to be under British rule? See the fighting that's going on there now? Anyways, as you can see I'm delightfully tired from a hard days work. I think I'll collapse right here. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Me too. *zzz*
Elbaz Sounds great, and it might impress teenagers, but unfortunately it is so weak and illogical that it can never be seen as a truism. If Ghandi was right, in his views on how people should behave, was he evil? Was Buddha? Hitler spent a great deal of time being dead wrong; does that make him good? If I think I am right, and I am right, and none of my actions cause harm, am I evil? Inm short, it's total bullshit. I suppose this is why you like it. There is no such word as "alot", just so you know. Yes. One of the major problems with the world is people having weak opinions, weak and feeble philosophies. "George Bush wasn't really voted in, but you know, I can't do anything about it, so I'll just go back to watching Jerry Springer..." I'm sure such feeblmindedness is more appealing to you than strong opinions. What problem to you have with strong opinions? Well, it's realy quite simple. Australia is better than most other countries in the world. Some cultures (cultures, not countries) do deserve to be wiped out, for the good of the poor suckers oppressed by those cultures. For example, the culture in India which allows a woman to be gang-raped for holding a guy's hand. That culture should be destroyed, and I would feel no remorse if mine was the signature authorising that destruction. I don't believe any twit who claims to be perfect. And I don't claim to be perfect. If you have something to say which is actually based on reality, let me know. You're an idiot. http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_detail/0,1227,137218-1-9,00.html http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/990902/1999090222.html http://wwww.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf...7738125ef7c2ca9bc1256c4b00470a79?OpenDocument http://abc.net.au/news/2002/11/item20021127185951_1.htm http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/07/23/mideast/ http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/4227466.htm http://www.ummah.com/inewsletter/massacres/palestine/index14.htm http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/breaking_news/4227466.htm http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/03/04/News/News.44530.html http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/95/148/05_3.html http://asia.news.yahoo.com/020926/afp/020926130246top.html From the UN: 1 2 3 4 There's heaps more if you could be bothered looking. See, it's not that I enjoy being right about how crappy the world is, and how crappy people are. I wish I was wrong more often. But unfortunately I am right, and you all suck. Note my avatar. See the above links. I used to know an Israeli kid, about 17 years old, on my IRC channel. He went on patrols with the local IDF now and then. The soldiers came around and gathered up the young Israeli chaps, gave them guns, and took them patrolling. He bragged one day that they had found an body-searched two Arabs. I asked why. He said "Because they were Arabs". Again, you're an idiot. Arafat walks a fine line, he lives in a constant state of compromise. One the one hand he must please the more vehement Palestinians. On the other, he knows that he must be a good guy or he will never have any international support. Prove it. Occasionally, when it is the best solution. But often it is not. In which case I support right over wrong. I've noticed a disturbing trend among many Israelis. They completely ignore reality. When an Israeli team of bulldozers and tanks destroyes a Palestinian village of civilians, these people say "They were terrorists", and 'my government would never do anythign wrong!" without actually even considering reality. And then, if anyone pionts out a bit of reality, they cry "You're anti-Semitic!" Bloody pathetic. Face it, Israel is a shit state which survives by killing civilians and lying to its own people, and the people gladly swallow the lies rather than risk becoming disillusioned with their state.
I don't think any progress will be made in the Israeli-Palestinian situation until both sides start to compromise. Basically, each side is convinced it is in the right and refuses to even acknowledge that the other view is valid. To make matters worse, many people have personal grievances related to the troubles, which leads to a repetitive cycle of violence and retribution. This will continue until people agree to say "Enough!" Given the present political landscape in Israel, a diplomatic solution seems very unlikely in the near future. I seriously doubt any progress will be made whilst Sharon is in power - and he looks like increasing his hold in the upcoming elections. On the Palestinian side, Arafat carries much history with him, which is not necessarily a good thing. However, there seems to me to be no obvious successor waiting in the wings. (Perhaps somebody can enlighten me on why that is.) I hope that the next generation will be able to take a longer view and make the decision for peace. Unfortunately, for many reasons, I do not see grounds for optimism at this stage. I'd like to hear from anybody with a close interest in these events as to how you think peace will be achieved. I'd like to hear that you <b>want</b> peace; it seems to be something everybody says but nobody is prepared to make any sacrifices for.
GB-GIL, that was a mercyless analysis and so true.... The war between jews and arabs has gotten so down and dirty that even the moderate and/or intellectually gifted people amongst them are forced to choose a side and take up the sword or spread misinformation through the media or the internet.... We here in Europe tolerated for a long time what happened in Israel because we felt terribly guilty for what happened during world war two. On many occaisions Jewish lobbies have rubbed it in our faces in times they needed our support badly or to distract attention from some nasty deeds of their own militant people. Because we tolerated people like Sharon, we have fed arab frustratration and now they bring their dirty fight to America and europe and to my favorite holiday destinations.... And the arabs are not one bit better, cause officialy they have the same arch-father as the Jews, namely: Abraham. As you now familly quarrels are the worst,,,,, Here is my piece of misinformation : As you know south Africa and Israel closely cooperated in developing nuclear warheads and missiles. Ultimately the Jericho missile was developed, a true ICBM, that could hit any spot in the world. Rumour has it , that if Europe does not help Israel in a critical conflict thay will not only cover the arab world in a nuclear cloud but also shoot some of these missile to europe, partly blackmail and the other part as a FINUL FUK U for the germans for what the did in the 40's..... Misinfo? Well, just chek Sharons record and see if he is less ruthless than Saddam Hussin or the local mad mullah...
Vortexx, I'm curious. The part about blackmailing Europe - where did you get this info...I mean mis-info? It's the first time I've heard of it.
My disgust is towards the religious nutters, I don't care the colour of their skin and if they wear turbans or not, protestant millitants in Ireland make me puke too, Hindu millitants that bash muslims and set mosks on fire make me puke also.... I guess one of the few religions that is truely peacefull and tolerant is Boedhism.....
http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countries/israel/howfar.html Not the kind of evidence that will hold up in court, but it does make you think, doesn't it?
