When was he tortured? He wasn't. Its just enhanced interrogation, necessary for every sovereign country. McCain himself supports enhanced interrogation and suggests that all American hostages should be subject to it.
He wasn't. All the stuff that he claims was done to him [we have no independent verification after all], is the stuff that Americans have declared as NOT torture. Pretty sly of him, pulling out war stories from his ass, pretending he was tortured. Just like all those idiots in Bagram and Gitmo. Why I bet he secretly enjoyed it, its all in good fun. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I mean, have you seen his effing crocodile tears? The things some people will do to get in the news. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
See SAM, you have just proven that you are not here for serious debate, your are here as a flaiming agitator. You use nothing but Loaded Question, with no other purpose but to flame. Loaded Question: Entered in Evedence: ...
You have no point to be made, all you ask are, "Have you stopped beating your wife" question's, loaded questions, nothing but Flameing, pure plane and simple.
You have no point to be made, all you ask are, "Have you stopped beating your wife" question's loaded questions, nothing but Flameing, pure plane and simple. Entered in evedence: “ Originally Posted by S.A.M. Are you saying you are trying to become a third world country? How far back are you going? Will there be a Rwanda next in the US? ” “ Originally Posted by S.A.M. How many members in death squads have been convicted? ” “ Originally Posted by S.A.M. Thats got nothing to do with CIA death squads. Has it? How many news articles with names and convictions of members of militant Americans spreading terrorism in foreign countries will I find? ” “ Originally Posted by S.A.M. Still not getting an answer. How many death squad members have been convicted ? ” “ Originally Posted by S.A.M. No. Now, how many American militants have been tried in the US courts? We hear all the time about how little the Middle East is doing about militancy in its government. What is the US doing about state sponsored terrorism? ” “ Originally Posted by S.A.M. Such a shame, the US is one of those oppressive regimes run by death squads. Pitiful, really. ” “ Originally Posted by S.A.M. Commies, are those the people who still believe in habeas corpus? Rather than some good old fashioned Christian lynching? ” “ Originally Posted by S.A.M. Are you saying you are trying to become a third world country? How far back are you going? Will there be a Rwanda next in the US? ” ...
Ice, your staunch view that no interrogators, doctors, or trainers have been tried only proves my previous point extensively. If I remember correctly S.A.M. and you were saying that interrogation techniques were a form of torture. But if no interrogators were tried for the mistreatment represented in the photos, it's because in doing their job they did not commit any crime, regular soldiers, or low level perps as you call them did... You want evidence that low level perps were not the only ones exposed? Here you go: BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The highest-ranking U.S. soldier charged in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal in Iraq has been sentenced to eight years in prison. Staff Sgt. Ivan "Chip" Frederick, a U.S. Army reservist from Virginia, also was sentenced Thursday to a forfeiture of pay, a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private. And the reason I offered to agree to disagree was on the basis that this conversation has turned to a tangent. I simply responded to this thread to argue that Gitmo was not the same thing as a WWII concentration camp and not to discuss whether doctors, trainers, or even interrogators were tried for the photo scandal. You are speaking trivialities, while I was under the presumption that we were talking on a greater level such as whether interrogation was torture.
Oh and if you don't agree that this conversation has taken a turn for the worst, look at Buffalo Roam's extensive research and comment that S.A.M. is just a flaming agitator. And sadly he is correct.
What point was that ? Do you have an example of an interrogator, doctor, trainer,etc, who has been punished ? So far you have presented none. Are you deliberately pulling my chain? My contention is that, contrary to your ridiculous assertion that "all of the interrogators have been punished", none of the interrogators, doctors, policy setters, direct torture supervision, contractors, translators, etc etc etc, at Abu Ghraib (or anywhere else in the American torture prison system) have been charged or tried, even, let alone punished. My contention is that only low-level perps exposed to the public through undeniable circumstance - a dead body with a definite chain of possession, photos escaped to the internet, etc - have been so punished. You object, and give me yet another example of a low-level guard directly connected to the Abu photos, who was punished. Is that a joke ? Trolling ? Here is an account of Frederick's verdict at the time, and I bold the relevant details: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/21/iraq.abuse/ That medic, those "military intelligence" guys, present at the scene and responsible, were not even named in public. They certainly were not charged or tried, much less punished, for that incident. Here, I'll help you - Armin Cruz http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/11/prison.abuse/index.html That would have been more trouble for me as a response - Cruz was at least an "analyst", even if he was not charged with abuses connected with the torture interrogation policy common to the US system, but instead with an auxiliary incident indirectly connected with the photos. Buffalo's flaming, trolling, and off topic ranting ad homs, you mean ? He does that all the time, with SAM. As long as the mods let him, he will continue - I've seen him post pages of the stuff.
Here is the progression of this discussion: Gitmo compared to WWII concentration camp ---> Gitmo interrogation techniques considered to be torture by some ---> Abu Ghraib scandal I will not discuss trivialities such as what kind of personnel were tried for the Abu Ghraib mistreatment. I simply stated that the crime was not overlooked. I am sure not everyone who was involved was tried but that's an unfortunate part of life. And I also stated that low level perps were not scapegoated, high ranking personnel such as a Staff Sgt. were sentenced to jail for many years as well. (Staff Sgt. is not a low-level guard by the way Ice.) Also you have to understand military law is not the same as civilian law, so certain things such as the doctor saying he was doing what he was being told wouldn't fly in a civilian court but in the army in does to a certain degree. Lastly, Buffalo's posts are some desperately needed reality checks on this forum. People lose focus of the discussion as is the case here and simply begin to antagonize. So if that sounded all convoluted I am simply saying we have strayed off topic, and are squabbling over a triviality not connected to the initial topic and that will neither add any value to it.
And I pointed out that most of the crime at Abu was not only overlooked, but actively concealed. The entire torture interrogation policy was denied, and a few low level perps undeniably caught on camera were set up as scapegoats. It took deliberate effort to prosecute only a selection of those involved in the torture interrogations at Abu Ghraib. A normal prosecution for months of "doing what military intelligence wanted" and the involvement of doctors and medics would include those interrogators, those doctors who treated the abused without reporting the abuse. A normal prosecution for photographing someone tortured to death during interrogation would include the people who inflicted the abuse, the people who ordered it, the doctors and others who witnessed it, and the policy maker who set such practices - not just the frigging photographer. The thread started with comparison of general techniques that were called "torture" when used by Vietnamese on John McCain, and "enhanced interrogation" when Americans employ them now. I find his delusional rants and ad hom babblings uninformative, in general. Way too many factual errors, for starters. But to each his own.
So do the McCain-ites contend that John McCain, who was treated exactly as the people in Abu Ghraib or Gitmo and Bagram have been treated, except that his legs did not need amputation, his arms did not pop out of their sockets from being tied behind his back and then suspended from the ceiling by them and clearly, did not die as the famous man in the body bag, was not tortured? Have they accepted that all Americans who were treated in a similar manner and insisted they were tortured were all liars?
Again SAM with the loaded question? Now do you condemn the use of torture, by those in Islam who do such acts?
