Star Wars vs Star Trek

What amazes me is that this is the common philosophy of most Star Wars proponents. They look to the ESB asteroid vape scene to judget their own side but they don't use an equal comparison for the Trek side.

Wong...used a 1.5 Gigawatt stat he found somewhere and never bothered to search for an unshield object from which to truely discern the truth. I'm also suprised Robert Anderson didn't think of this when he studied the Volumetrics on the Trek ships.

The great thing about trek is that they give you alot of information. Some of it may conflict. but...some of it can give you a good idea of what starships are capable of.
We expect they're technology to be superior to Earth of the 21 century...and it is.

 

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Too late.

However, I'll occasionally logout and get a laugh here and there.

 

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Indeed.
Scott is doing a great job at relenting on this one.
Remember, When Scott says nothing you've really got something.

 

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Modfications have been done to the Encyclodpedia to correct the massive mathematical errors I made. The propper results are now posted.


http://www.sciforums.com/encyclopedia/Star_Trek_vs._Star_Wars

LookS LIKE THE BATTLE IS WON.

 

Star Wars would clearly win, on both the size of its forces and its lack of stupidity. In Star Trek, yes, every few weeks they come up with a new doomsday weapon that can blow up the galaxy, then in the next episode they forget all about it when they really need it most.

 

Hmmm...
as opposed to the same Doomsday weapon....over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again...

I encourage you though to look at the proof for yourself.

 

Correction...as opposed to getting the same doomsday weapon blown up...over and over again. By "a bunch of teenagers" (thx Robot Chicken)!

 

Indeed.

I can't believe he said....Star Wars has a Lack of Stupidity.

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Is it finished ? really ? finally ?.
This thread hasn't been active for 12 hours now..

Ah what the hell,
Trek FTW.

 

it's not finished!!! people just have not returned from their respective vacations yet

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SW can build energy cannons that blow up entire planets in one shot (and power sources to power them). That's about a bajillion times more powerful than anything ST has ever even come close to demonstrating in terms of raw firepower. Yes, it was a gun mounted in a giant battle station - but there's no way to scale that down to a star destroyer's heavy gun and not still come up with crazy levels of firepower. Anyone here want to get some extra credit by calculating approximately how much energy it would take to blow up a planet? As I recall it's something around the order of 10^38 joules.

There's also the issue of SW ships being much, much faster than Federation ships; SW ships can cross the galaxy in days, while Federation ships would take years. That fact alone would make it almost impossible for the Federation to mount an effective defense. SW ships can basically appear anywhere in Federation space at any time. If Imperial ships show up at a planet and find the Federation fleet waiting to fight them, they can simply go to a different planet and have hours/days/weeks to smash it before the Federation can catch up. Of course the Federation could try to station a few ships everywhere, but then it would always be a few Fed ships vs. the entire Imperial fleet.

 

Saquist, I read your analysis in which you calculate that the enterprise was able to vaporize 4 trillion tons with three phasor blasts. That is obviously wrong, and here's the proof:

Rock has a density of about 2.8 tons/m^3. In the ST episode "The Pegasus" the Enterprise is faced with the problem of a federation ship stuck in a giant asteroid. The Romulans are poking around the area and the Feds are afraid that they will learn something from the ship. On the Enterprise they discuss just blowing up the asteroid, but conclude that they can't because it's too big. Now to be clear, this was a really huge asteroid - it looked like it was many km across. But 4 trillion tons would be a cube of rock about 11 km/side. If they could really vaporize that much with a few phasor blasts, they should have been able to EASILY destroy the asteroid. The fact that they couldn't sets an upper limit on how much damage the Enterprise can do in a reasonable amount of time, and clearly that limit is way below trillions of tons of material vaporized.

My math:
density of rock = 2.8 tons/m^3
10^15 kg / 2800 kg = 1.4E12 m^3
1.4E12^(1/3) = 11262 m/side

Edit: And your low-end estimate of the phasors on the Enterprise being 200 or so times more powerful than the light turbolasers in SW isn't really a problem for the SW side. You're comparing the Enterprise's main weapons against the tiny guns that star destroyers use to swat one-man fighters. The heavy guns that stardestroyers use to fight other capital ships are presumably MUCH more powerful - it's like comparing a little 20 mm antiaircraft machinegun with a 16 inch antiship naval cannon.

And finally, you are comparing a lower bound estimate for the power of a light turbolaser to an upper bound estimate of the phasor's power. We only know that the light turbolaser is at worst no less than 1/200th the power of a phasor.

 

Only one problem nasor:

Hyperdrive > Warp, yes...

Hyperdrive = TransWarp / Quantum Slipstream

Warp is FAR faster than sublight, and Impulse Drive is also far faster than Sublight...

At Warp speed, Federation ships loose very little combat effectiveness...

at HyperSpace, Wars ships cannot engage at all...

Also, the DS would never HIT a Trek ship. EVER.

 

i think Saquist posted about the situation with the borg cube in Q-who. the cube is mostly composed of tritanium, not rock. the amount of material desintegrated in the phaser strike consists of 3 craters. one on the corner wide some 700-800m and several hundreds meters deep, one hemispherical wide about 600-700m and another just like that but no more then 300m wide. the total voulume of material is in question here, not the mass.

in my own estemates, low level drilling phasers desintegrate 252m wide sphere of granite per second for 14s (STTNG-"Legacy"). that is 8.37 million cubic meters of granite per second for 14 seconds or a total of 117.18 million cubic meters for the entire operation. they deliberatly stop the drilling at this popint (not because they have exhausted the banks, but because they have reached the desired depth).if fired at full power phasers never fire more then 5 burst of 1s in a row, so one of those burst should be capable of desintegrationg at least
23. 436 million cubic meters of granite or a 355m wide sphere of that rock, or a 450m wide, 225m deep hemispherical crater in a flat large object object. that is far more then any asteroid blown away in ESB.

 

It looks that way.
It was a hard fight. But I'm glad imperical evidence could finally seal the deal.
Nasor, I'm going to let someone else tackle your issues for two reasons. I don't think they're significant against the numbers. And I really don't wish to follow your lead into a flaming match again. I know I'm better than that and it disapoints me I did it last time.

REALLY?!

 

A couple things to consider about Pegasus. Riker was really freaked out at the time, he did not want the phase cloak tech and his part in it getting out. His judgment on the matter is not the best...
Everyone else was more concerned with recovering the lost ship, and not making things seem suspicious to the romulans, which actually blowing the asteroid would have have been.

also, the two incidents have equal canon status, so if Q Who shows a higher yield than Pegasus indicates, we don't really have a reason to discard one in favor of the other, but have to find another explanation.

 

Fed ships are able to engage in combat at warp against other Fed ships. It's unknown whether or not a ship at warp can fight against a ship that's not also at warp. So far as I know, that has never been shown in any trek movie or tv episode.

And in any case, it doesn't really matter if the DS can hit a Fed ship when it can simply blow up every Fed planet. Hell, you don't even need the DS to wreck every Fed planet. No planetary shields + heavy turbolasers that hit like nuclear weapons (or worse) = lots of Fed cities turned to piles of carbon.

 

Elaan of Troyius

and the Ulitimate computer both show warp strafing.

 

I remember Kirk was up against a Klingon D7 that was Straffing against the Enterprise attempting to goad them into engaging in battle at warp because the ship was sabotaged hoping to destroy the Enterprise.

They the Enterprise fake them out wants they got rid of the sabotage. Obviously they can.

 

From what we have heard, turbolasers hit nothing close to nuclear explosions. Photon torpedoes on the other hand...