I've been browsing the biology and astronomy forums lately and with all the talk about natural selection and giant asteroids I pose the question : Should we accept our galactic fate and make way for the future? We as humans strive to overcome obstacles and with the advent of modern technology and medicine we've, in essence, cheated death. Once bacteria and other microorganisms determined our fate but now antibiotics and vaccinations help us to survive. But what if we weren't meant to survive. One of the theories in the astronomy forum was that an asteroid would plumet from the skies and wipe out all of humankind. A reply to this was "humans have the uncanny ability to overcome anything thrown at them". Sorry I forgot who said it. Anyways, our bodies also have an immune system that fights off evil invaders on the microscopic level. Our body senses the bacteria trying to destroy us so we fight back and rid ourselves of this pest. What if the universe is "human" and we are the germs? By natural selection, the asteroid is the immune system of the universe and is attempting to rid itself of humankind, the bacteria. We reproduce and populate the earth and spread like disease. We overtake the resources and feed off of the nutrients of the planet. So the universe fights back and attempts to kill off the invading intruders, namely us. Who's side should we be on? Selfishness says that we should try to preserve our own well being and continue as we are. But on a universal level are we destined to make way for future life by being eradicated by a big chunk of rock travelling straight towards us at thousands of miles per hour? According to some theories we are inevitably doomed to perish anyways. Create life, destroy it, repeat. Just wanted to hear some of your thoughts on this. Mods move this as you please. I have no idea where to post this Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I'd move this to philosophy, but the admin options only work on scifi. So I'll let someone else handle it. But on this subject, philosophy-wise, I really don't think you can compare humans to germs and the universe to a living person, simply because things are way, way out of proportion. You also cannot do this because as far as we know the universe is not alive (we can theorize otherwise). Hmmmm....an interesting calculation would be to say how large the universe is in units of how tall an average human male is. That might shed some perspective on the subject.... But anyway, fate-wise, with the species, I believe, like all species, humans were meant to be succesful, they were meant to survive for as long as, well, humanly possible. Other species are succesful by reproducing asexually etc etc, but we control most aspects of our homeworld through our intelligence, even though we are arguably not the most succesful organism (I'd give that title to the most common bacteria). On our future, I would say that, if we survive the current age of atomics and war and prejudice we would meet a golden age of space exploration and colonization, inhabiting hundreds of thousands of planets with octillions of people, all striving to simply be happy. At this point it would become very likely that our species would survive until the universe ends, or flies apart (atoms would be miles away from each other).
But humans have so many things in common with germs and viruses. We need sustenance and we find that from the earth. Whether the earth is a living being is debatable so I'll give you that one. But we multiply to insure our survival as a species much like cancer. Some might say that we're getting out of control and that there is no more room for any more people. So we adapt and try to find another way out. With talk of eventually running out of resources we will have to colonize other planets and such. The common cold works the same way. They (the cold germs) see that they are being defeated so they adapt and mutate and form new strains that are resistant to vaccines. They want to survive and will do anything to accomplish this. You're right, my analogy is a little out of proportion but think of it this way. We start out small but after colonizing other planets for it's resources we have grown and expanded. The way the universe operates is cyclic. Like when a star is born. After it's born it lives and then in the end it dies. Maybe mankind us supposed to live and die and then the cycle starts again. Therein lies the problem. What of all our achievements that we've spent years and decades for. It all goes to waste becuase we would have to start from scratch. Perhaps we were not meant to evolve and expand. Because if we keep overcoming obstacles we will be able to do anything. We would in essence become "god".
But we have many things not in common with germs and viruses as well, first off, viruses are hardly alive at all. Germs and microscopic organisms cannot write, they cannot love, they cannot hate, and they cannot desire. They are incapable of emotion because they are so primitive. So far as we know, humans are the most complex evolutionary development in the universe. If we're meant to die, and there's nothing we can do about it, then so be it. We probably will die off eventually, but our exploits will certainly not be forgotten by those that replace us or discover our remains. But maybe we are not meant to do anything, maybe there is no fate in the universe. Either case, destiny or nondestiny, is easily arguable.
A reminder If it were not for death, then evolution would be quite uneccessary. If it were not for evolution, then we would not be pondering fate in the first place.
reading theat topic question, it made me think of a quote from the Terminator, "There is no fate but what me make" Wow, thats really deep.
POLLUX V: you're a bit too optimistic for my ideas. but hence the difference in the two of us. I think that if we get through this "atomic age" as you call it, we'll just find an even more destructive way to kill things. You can't trust mankind as a whole to use the foresight to see into the future and stop his own greedy actions to further preserve the species. but thats just me. call me a skeptic. call me a pessimist. call me a nihilist. i dunno
Halo, It sounds af if you're very sad on this, like when you see someone leaving to "go out into the world" and you know that they'll become different, no longer familiar. That you feel this way about what humanity will become and whether it will overreach itself or else die. I think that if we were to meet people from, say, two or three or even ten thousand years ago, we'd be surprised at how very alike we were. And we might laugh at some of their fears for how we'd be (and who could blame them if they had only half imagined the capability we now have for self-destruction). So, looking forward, even everso far, I think we will still be pretty much what we are, and still manoevering our way around obstacles that we don't know about yet, if not inventing them Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
But even though there are bad people in power there are good people as well, or people who have some good in them. You have to admit, that for the most part things have turned out for the better in our century and in our current time, for everyone on Earth things are better than they would have been had they been living a hundred or a thousand or ten thousand years ago. Things are getting better. Things are definitely far from perfect but they are closer than they have ever been. All we can hope for is that the world will continue to follow this path.
p.s. excuse gratuitous smilie use. Just discovered how to make them work...Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Ooops...
I'm not sure if I believe in free-will or pre-destination, but if we refuse to accept it, how is that going to stop it happening? And on the idea of perhaps making preparations for the worst... Better safe than sorry. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I think the human race is a self-destructiong organism. The earth doesn't care, and it will endure. The only thing that's gonna wipe us out is us.
The fate of humans might be to overcome that fate? Or die in a horrid state of decay from war, greed, or any other potentialy deadly human vice. Which is why my stance on fate, and the future in general is just see what happens then you don't have to guess, you know. Random GI JOE~ "Knowing is half the battle."
I don't believe that we will ever accept our fate, unless some E.L.E occurs that is far beyond our current technological level to avoid, or for that matter beyond our understanding.
I've stopped wondering "Why this" and "What if", I'm not gonna waste any more time trying to work out why we are here. The fact is we are here, and in the end we die, period. So lets grab some fun and enjoy the bit of this living weve got, your a long time dead. *Should we accept our fate?* It doesn't matter what you accept, you got a very short time here, don't waste it. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Have fun.
This comparison ignores the fact that we are part of the universe, but the microbes that cause disease are not born in us. They are outside invaders. Unless you think we are invaders from another dimension. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Fight for whatever you wish. Bite and claw and eventually only those strong enough, RIGHT enough will be left. Through such strife we could produce a legacy that would survive anything.
They The mind finds this topic a continuous struggle. When one finally half way convinces themselves that they exist in a reality, and that thye do have control over their fate outside forces quickly change ones mind. Humanity has control over its fate as long as it is amusing, or suited to a higher force. Once humans realize the desparity of their reality hope and nature quickly lose ambition to change and evolve. Reality is a veil, which can be cast aside in a few lost precious seconds. Yes, I know that this is cryptic, but thats the way it is meant to be. Rowen
Interesting points... Along the subject of fate, if you are religious or not most people agree that to some degree fate exists, the way atoms grouped at the begginning of the big bang etc cascaded and so we are here (sorry for bad explanition), If the temp of the first thousand years after the big bang had been 1 degree higher or lower then we wouldn't be here, so to that there is fate. I always think of it as a ball rolling down a hill, the facts are that the ball is rolling east, accellerating at 2ms -2 down a concrete hill etc, but we can atleast control the ball; strear it left or right, in real time, yet the fact that we are still rolling down the hill at 2ms-2 east is still there. Did that make sense? No- ============================================= Fate= A Ball, accn down hill(2ms -2), East direction on concrete. Us= Steering the ball a bit left or right, changing or direction slightly. The fact we are still going down the hill is fate, though. ============================================= If we get hit by an asteroid it is fate, to stop it is us steering the ball a bit left, (or right). Is it wrong? Are we a virus, no. A virus is just a unwanted host in a body, if the virus completly overtook the body then the virus becomes the host, if we take over the universe, we become it. Any views on what I just typed would be great. -Fabled_Dreamer -Tom
