''I do not know if will help you but here is link to a well written post of nonsense.'' Sorry, Billy.... but... hypocrisy?
''They'', means ''we''... ... as in... ...''We do not experience a time pass... As for the second part, ever heard of strecthing the fabric of spacetime and matter so that a rip will eventually occur? BY THE WAY... i think you think i am Metapcron yes?
You said in post 10: " They don't experience any time pass at all. But if they did, then it would be speculated to be the smallest amount of time known, the Planck Time, so if it experienced a birth, it would be the same as its death... quite sad really, from a photons point of view." Are now telling me that this is about humans? I.e. if avoiding pronouns by replacing your "they" with "humans" you are saying: "Humans do not experience time pass(ing) ...." That is a very strange POV. Do you not experience time passing? No I have never heard that from anyone who is logical. If there were a "rip" in space time, what would be there where the rip or hole is? - not space not time. The idea of a rip in space time is just a missuse of words as far as I can tell. sort of like saying: "Elephant eggs are usually blue." I.e. is a grammatically well structured sentence, but is speaking of something non-existent. How can space be "ripped"? What sense is there in the "edge of space" just where the rip begins? If you were there at that edge, facing it, and took a step forward would that make you not exist in space time or would that be impossible to do? It just does not make any sense to speak a some thing out side of the universe's space time. Space in some sense can be "distored," but not "ripped." - No more sense to that than "Elephant eggs are usually blue." No. MetaKron always makes clearly expressed posts, you seldom do.
Billy You misunderstand. You are blowing things out of context... or is it just me... I said ''virtual photons are constantly popping in and out of existence, not that they actually exist for a second in their frame of reference anyway (1).'' The (1) here indicates go to excerpt (1), which talks about photons... it's really just an added detail to basically make things more interesting for the reader who might not know that; (1) - They don't experience any time pass at all. But if they did, then it would be speculated to be the smallest amount of time known, the Planck Time, so if it experienced a birth, it would be the same as its death... quite sad really, from a photons point of view. So it was really only to make it interesting. That is why, when you come to the sentance, ''sharing an electromagnetic signal weakens over greater and greater distances (2),'' in the OP, does the (2) explain some more interesting factors, like if you stretched the fabric of spacetime for long enough, and inexorably galaxies get further apart, the electromagnetic signals, and gravitational weaken to a critical value. Of course, this is the big rip.
Billy You said, ''No I have never heard that from anyone who is logical. If there were a "rip" in space time, what would be there where the rip or hole is? - not space not time.'' So i will ask you to google ''Big Rip Theory.''
I did. All of the references are essentially the same as Wiki's text, which states: "...First, the galaxies would be separated from each other. About 60 million years before the end, gravity would be too weak to hold the Milky Way and other individual galaxies together. Approximately three months before the end, the Solar system would be gravitationally unbound. In the last minutes, stars and planets would be torn apart, and an instant before the end, atoms would be destroyed. The authors of this hypothesis, led by Robert Caldwell of Dartmouth College, calculate that the end of the universe as we now know it would be in approximately 50 billion years. ..." Yes I have heard of that, several years ago, but it has nothing to do with your statement about space/time being ripped apart. Both space and time are well preserved, during this ripping apart of mater. Space is not "ripped" at all, only expanded. BTW that last part (about the atoms being destroyed), is quite speculative. Perhaps this "dark energy force" is really a "gravity canceling" or "gravity absorption" effect, only miss-named as a (fifth) "force." It might then have no effect on even chemical compounds, not even on large salt crystals etc. but the spinning Earth would break up into much smaller pieces as it is gravity which now prevents that. Dark energy (or something) is now greater than gravity's force on space scale of more than approximately a billion light years and appear to be growing stronger as the universe expands. If there is a direct link between the strength of this "anti-gravity" force, which is accelerating the the expansion of the universe, the expansion of space, then then there will come a time in the future when even on smaller spatial scales, (like galaxy size scales) that it overpowers gravitational attraction and galaxies begin to separate in to isolated solar systems with increasing average distance between them. As it continues to grow stronger, it will over come the sun's gravitation attraction for the planets, including Earth (but we need not worry about that as the sun will have ceased to shine before that happens.) Your communication problems have made you completely missunderstand what you have read about the "big rip". Space time are not ripped as you stated. That is a nonsensical logically impossible idea - no with less* meaning than "Elephant eggs are blue." has. It is the matter that is ripped apart within space time. --------------- * The sentence "Elephant eggs are blue." is not logically impossible, only non- factual. "Space is ripped apart."is both non-factual AND logically impossible.
You do realize that matter are but creases in the fabric of spacetime itself? Then if matter ripped, spacetime rips also. 1+1=2.
It's my understanding of what relativity states about the nature of matter and spacetime, being the same thing, which reduced me to what i said.
If the universe is accelerating, in 20 billion years the fabric of space time may be torn into shards. There would be nothing left, not even empty space. Illustration used with permission, copyright © 1998-2006 Lynette Cook, all rights reserved. Check out more of Lynette's space artwork here, lots of exosolar planets and SETI art. Well worth the look!
From: Daily Kos: Science Friday: Long Live the Big Rip!It's not just matter which will be destroyed: The fabric of space-time itself will be ..... The Big Rip hates us for a our freedom, and I mean talk about a ... www.dailykos.com/story/2006/1/27/7140/04722 - 153k - Cached - Similar pages So it had nothing to do with MY MISUNDERSTANDING AT ALL.
I do not believe that, but even if I did, and mater were to separate I would not state that space was ripped apart as that is logically impossible. I would say that God finally got around to "ironing out" the wrinkels in space or something less jesting but to the same effect.
Did you read the othe work? And if you could even iron out those wrinkles, would mean you have removed matter and energy, and spacetime cannot exist without matter or energy: Einstein ''We once thought you could remove all the matter in the universe, and spacetime would still exist. Now with relativity, we now know spacetime would dissappear also.''
I went there too. Found nothing to indicate space would be ripped apart when everything all mater is, (and that may not occur as I noted in last post if dark energy is not the fifth force but only some ability in the universe to absorb or weaken gravity gravitational force - AND has no effect on the other three forces) If I missed such a statement about space being ripped, please quote it and indicate where in the text you cited it appears. Also I am sure you are not alone in posting on internet a misunderstanding of what the big rip theory actually is stating. It should be possible to find many others who think it means space will be ripped apart. I have no way of knowing - but most of the few times I have looked at wiki in an area I know something about they often have at least some minor errors. I thus prefer to only cite articles in journals that have been critically reviewed before being published - any idiot can post anything he likes on his blog.
Well I can agree that space time is not observable (and there would be no observers) if all mater were to disappear, so it is reasonalble, in fact that is my POV, that if something is inprinciple unobservable (and has not effect on on any thing) the the preferred philosophical POV is to state it does not exist.* Perhaps that is what Einstein was saying (assuming that he said your pair of sentences you atributed to him. - I would appreciate at least the prior sentences if you can not give me a link to text where I can read what he said for myself.) ------------ *I have in several threads taken this POV about time. Even shown mathematically that the "t," called time, in the equations of physics can be eliminated from them all, at least in principle, but so long as two atoms exist, space has properties that in principle can be observed in Einstein's physics (Their mutual gravitational attraction is best thought of as due to their effect on space - I do not do that usually but that POV does resolve the old "action at a distance" problem which even troubled Newton.)
I will try and find a link... but... essentially... Billy... and i don't mean to be cheaky, but it really couldn't be reduced logically any more simpler than what is understood. If you rip and annihilate all matter and energy, spacetime cannot sustain, and would rip also.
The choice to choose between life and death is free will at its best. Every human has either free will, or determinism. Or a compromise of both. Immortality is an example of a person choosing life over death. The brain is but a perception of the mind. Consciousness is primary because choice and free will take place IN consciousness. Listen to ronan. There is nothing supernatural about it. The reality of the mind and the reality of the world are unified, not split. The concrete world in which the brain is part is perceived as objects in the mind. Thus there should be a mechanism that the mind can create that will influence the physical well being of the body and allow immortality. It would make sense that the meaning of life is a creative force. I can choose between life and death, as I have stated before I am a miracle of the consciousness and the understanding that mind and reality can be unified to a point that the mind can will matter.
Not only is that false, or at least without any evidence to support it, it does not follow logically from the absence of mater that there would be a "rip in space." A rip in space" is a self contradictory set of words. What could it possibly mean? There can be a rip in a sheet of mater (paper, piece of cloth etc) but not in space. To show how silly / senseless the idea is please tell what happens if one tried to jump across this rip in space. What does a laser beam directed across the rip do? Appear magically from no source on the other side of the rip?
No. Please think harder, and distinguish what i am saying. In relevance with a rip, if you annihilate energy totally, through an expanding spacetime where its fabric is stretched to a critical point, the fabric itself can rip. So as something relevant, if you remove the notion of energy and matter as we know it, the spacetime still dissappears. And you can't jump across something non-existant. It would be something which is nothing. The rip itself, has no hole really for you to jump across. If you moved towards this rip (1), you would move around this ''nothingness'', as if it never existed. (1) - which is probably impossible also from the fact, that spacetime wouldn't give you a chance, in such a catastrophic manner, since it would reduce spacetime back to whence it came faster than light itself.
