Star Wars vs Star Trek

Sean Connery?

 

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Sean Connery isn't bald, or of a lean build...

He's just a built old guy that's fucking macho... I'd hate to get on his bad side XD

 

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Well. For one he doesn't say all ships.
It's "concentrate your firepower on that superstar destroyer." Rather than the Captial ships attacking the Fighters attack. No Concentrated Fleet Fire is ever seen on Executor. The Alliance would not fire on the Executor and the send it's fighters into a blas radius at the same time.

Secondly the Frigates would have no effect on Executor's shields. The only ships withe firepower to take on that ships was the Mon Calmari Mothership....and apparently A-wings and X-wings.

There is also no sign of captial grade proton torpedoes.

 

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Hayden Christinsen is the best.

 

Man, Star Destroyers crashing is already bad enough. Star Destroyers are 1600 meters and they have HYPERMATTER Reactors that really go BOOM.

 

Thing is, if those reactors put out the energy you claim, when they went "boom", they'd OBLITERATE an area with a radius of a few AU!

 

your not seriously sugesting that shatner is greater than harrison ford?

 

So do you have any proof that the shields were down?

 

Read my post!!! I said all the actors in episodes 1,2, and 3.

I fully respect the glory of the older star wars movies.

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eh... misread it. could of sworn you'd wrote 1,2,3,4,5,6... this is what happens when you skim stuff

 

It is worth noting that Aircraft Carriers are brought down by fighter-bombers...

A Super Star Destroyer may be huge, incredible, blahblahblah, but can be victim to smaller craft used appropriately.

It is also notable that Star Trek simply does not have a hope. As proven billions of times over, the power and speed of Star Wars makes Trek look...positively antique compared.

 

Prince James, thing is, Hyperdrive, even the fastest hyperdrive speeds we've seen (in multiples of c) are only about 3x as fast as maximum warp in SHEER SPEED. The thing is, Warp Drive, you know, WARPS space, to reduce the actual distance you have to move.

The supposed power of Wars weapons and shields is pathetic at best... you have the impact of three ISD's into the Executor with no real repercussions on local space... that means these "hypermatter generators" are very, very low power. A high multi terrawatt power generator would, when made unstable, obliterate anything within a few KM of the blast... not to mention likely form an implosion that could cause a momentary quantum singularity, much like the more serious warp core breaches in Star Trek do...

Even the so called (by rabid warsies) "meager" output of a Type 8 warp core (galaxy class) is enough to vaporize anything within a decent area around the ship that is unshielded and deals significant damage to even shielded vessels. In DS9, a runabout that was several KM away was buffeted severely by the USS Galaxy's destruction at the hands of a JemHadar bugship who's warp core, upon impact with the unshielded Galaxy, detonated, dealing critical damage to the larger ship.

Also - comparing a Modern Day Super-Aircraft Carrier and a Fighter/Bomber to Star Wars capital ships and Starfighters is stupid...

In theory, and given the power outputs of these crazy wars lovers, a SSD (like the Executor) should be able to dump half it's total power output into it's shield grid at which point it would become IMMUNE to anything short of a black hole, much less a starfighters weapons. The reason behind this is simple - the SSD can simply make much, MUCH more power than even a thousand X-wings on board systems can generate!

And if you EVEN try to mention Neutronium, I'll strangle you with my mouse cord... Star Trek Neutronium is never seen in Star Wars... thus the "neutronium" in Star Wars, which displays none of the properties of Trek neutronium, is NOT impenetrable, as shown by the fact a simple Asteroid is able to cleave off the bridge of an ISD.

 

It's not about hope.
60 to 1 James.
That's proven. The Enterprise can best the turbo laser 60 to 1.
Galaxy to ISD.

Star Wars may have the speed but the Federation has the fire power.
All of Star Wars supposed best abilites comes from the EU...an inferior canon source to the movies.

 

Saguist:

Absurdity.

Star Trek has no fire power to speak of. The fire power in Trek is absurdly underpowered, to the point that their weapons generally are in the low megaton range.

Consider:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/index.html
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Beam2.html

v.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Beam1.html

Phasers simply do not cut it compared to turbolasers. They are weak and ineffectual.

Also, SW missile weapons:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Torpedoes/Torpedo2.html

Trek missile weapons:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Torpedoes/Torpedo1.html

Not so. One of the most impressive feats accomplished by Star Wars is the destruction of Alderaan by the Death Star. The Death Star presents the most compelling first-order (movie) canon of Star Wars utter technical superiority.

Furthermore, Lucas Films have determined a strict order of SW canon that permits of the EU, just as Paramount has determined a strict order of ST canon that permits various sources. The EU is valid unless contradicted by the movies according to Lucas Film.

A great example of the superiority of Star Wars v. Star Trek is found in Hoth v. the time the Enterprise was stuck inside an asteroid. The Star Destroyers can violently vapourize tremendous asteroids with light turbo lasers. Were it not for the phase drive, the Enterprise would have been stranded, unable to cut, blast, or otherwise break through the asteroid which it was contained within.

 

The Death Star concept was flawed, at most an exageration and ridiculous, at the least it represented what the genre required to produce any real power.

Trek has exceed that flagrantly obvious concept in scope and imagination. Visual proof stands as the only real premise here. Second for second the Galaxy destroyed more than a turbo laser ever did. Trek will never need to build a moon to destroy a Planet.

Your premise is on a foundation of incredulity James. You have no proof the Enterprise had no other alternative. Thus you've constructed your premise on an invisible foundation.

As it stands The Enterprise vaporized a material that was 20 times harder than diamond, ten times harder than Iron and much, much more than a 40 meter asteroid. Consider this. As powerful as you say the turbo laser is...it can not vaporize a mere fighter, those fighter's weapons fail to show any high out put in the Asteroid Field and the fighters are proven to be quite vunerable to sub-kiloton weaponry in Phantom menace...Those fighters are capable of destroying capital ships.

The absurdity is that you've ignored the signs written clearly on the wall. Find canon representation on the same level to support your argument not speculation. That means researching the issue yourself instead of relying on Wong's site to think for you. Use all of canon and not just that which proves your case.

 

Saguist:

Anymore ridiculous than the Genesis Device? This is science fiction. IT is ridiculous to start with.

Save that no planet has ever been blown up by a Galaxy class. Otherwise, I'm fairly certain the Klingon, Cardassian, and Founder homeworlds would be a pile of rubble now.

Captain Picard states they'd be fucked without the phase shifter. That is why they use it to get through. They wouldn't have to salvage a dangerous prototype weapon if they had alternatives.

Technology tends to work to scale. Consider the effect of a flak cannon on a modern bomber. Compare that same flak cannon on a stone age warrior. In one case, you have a burning, wrecked airplane. In the other case, you have blood mist. The fighters of Star Wars are capable of sustaining blasts that have been shown to vapourize huge asteroids. That means they are at least as strong as that asteroid.

Which sub-kiloton weapons are you referencing?

Furthermore, I am not suggesting that the fighters have capital-ship level weaponary. They do not. You will note that turbolasers are capital ship weapons. Fighters use inferior weapons, just as the big guns are restricted to battleships in real life.

An engineer's website detailing point-by-point, frame-by-frame analysis, is far superior to a philosopher-in-training. I thus reference what could be called experts.

If you have counter evidence for Trek, I'm willing to hear it. I'd probably look at DS9. That has the most space-battles for it, although even there the great innovation is "a phaser which can fire somewhat rapidly". Contrast dozens of turbolaser batteries to capital ships that can fire one, or two blasts of phasers at once.

 

If you really must step outside the fantasy to address the incredulity you're conceeding defeat.

Your certainty is unwarranted.
No ISD has blown up a planet either

That's inconclusive untill they're actually in the situation of not having the option.

Fighter weaons have never vaporized an asteroid.
Not even the Asteroid in ESB was really vaporised. Debris can be seen ejecting from the explosion. That was here on this forum where it was made clear.

Droid Tanks.

Furthermore, I am not suggesting that the fighters have capital-ship level weaponary. They do not. You will note that turbolasers are capital ship weapons. Fighters use inferior weapons, just as the big guns are restricted to battleships in real life.

He's an engineer with a stark raving case of bias, James. He hacks canon and disregards the complete perspective for the sake of his own.

Once you've found a Trek canon equvialent to the Enterprise's best example of firepower. "Q Who" then you can come back and show me...but I personally have found nothing remotely close with the exception of RotJ where we see a MC blast and ISD into Oblivion. This may indicate Galaxy level or beyond firepower. It's a simple comparative analysis. We don't need to be rocket scientist to understand. Right now Trek has the clear upper had by 60 miles.

 

Saguist:

Incredulity holds for both. This is science fiction. It is no more ridiculous for the Empire to have a Death Star, than a scientist to create a Genesis Device. Or any number of absurd things in both universes.

There are instances in the EU where an ISD is capable of rendering a planet's inhabitable crust to "slag" in a manner of hours. Liquifying the crust and much of the mantle. This is a single ISD. A fleet could do so in minutes.

The Deathstar was capable of exploding a single planet in under a second. VIOLENTLY exploding - into smitherines.

An in-universe authority on what is and isn't possible stated they'd be screwed. That is the closest we'll ever get to knowing. If he had thought there was another, easier way, I am sure he would use it.

It was violently exploded, with much of it being reduced to vapour, and a few noticable chunks escaping. This is equivalent to most instances where something is exploded. The World Trade Center's explosive collapse, for instance.

Fighter weapons are never shown destroying an asteroid. What is your point?

Droid Tanks are using sub-kiloton weapons? That isn't obvious. One would assume these heavy artillery are capable of matching the level of armour/shielding in Star Wars that is routinely found on ground targets. This implies highly concentrated charges passing the kiloton range.

HOw is he hacking canon? He is referencing canon as Lucasfilm Ltd. shows it.

He's clearly pro-Wars, but has Trek provided counterclaims? If so, lend them to me so I can analyze them and we can discuss them in relation to our debate.

Can you get me the season-ep number for Q who?

 

Prince_James, here's the thing - While a single ISD could reduce a planet's crust to slag in hours... the USS Enterprise-A (an OLD OLD OLD ship by modern trek standards) could do the same in under an hour...

I would reckon the Ent-E could do it as fast as it could get around the planet... so I say a few seconds of warp-strafe torpedo bombardment.

OR, it could simply dump it's waste products into the atmosphere and light them up, quickly removing said atmosphere and vaporizing the topmost layers of crust...

 

Also, James, for counterclaims, look at DarkStar and even Saxton's websites... and Saxton IS PRO WARS. Yet even he shows in multiple instances the conservative, high end, and median levels of power... yet not even his most generous numbers begin to APPROACH the level of ignorance of Wong... Wong just wanks all over EU and ignores what we see on screen... very depressing to be honest.

Darkstar - http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWhi2.html

Saxton - http://theforce.net/swtc/index.html