The convenient hypocrisy of Republican Christians

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Fraggle Rocker, Dec 19, 2007.

  1. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Excerpted from Harold Myerson's column in this morning's Washington Post:
     
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  3. sandy Banned Banned

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    This thread is bs. If I started one called "The convenient hypocrisy of Democrat Atheists" it would be shut down/cesspooled in a heatbeat.

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  5. maxg Registered Senior Member

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    The Republican hatred of Latinos appears to be based not on self-interest but good old-fashioned racism (or nativism if you prefer). What's bizarre is that Latino immigrants are often rather socially conservative and many are moving from Catholicism to more conservative protestant denominations after arriving in this country. Yet the Christian right is jumping on the anti-immigrant train.

    They just built a Spanish-speaking Baptist church up the street from my house and I was talking to one of the members who basically said he would never have become a Christian (as opposed to a Catholic--his terminology) if he hadn't come to the US, and yet our resident CCR would deny him that opportunity.
     
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  7. sandy Banned Banned

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    WTF? We don't hate Latinos. WTF?

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    *WE HATE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. GOT IT? ILLEGALI MMIGRATION!!!

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    *
    BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

    And yes, I would deny ANY criminal alien everything. He has no right to be here. He is a parasite and needs to go the hell back to wherever the hell he came from.

    Illegal is illegal. There is NO spin.

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  8. sowhatifit'sdark Valued Senior Member

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    I doubt it. Why not try it and see?
    On the other hand pretty much all the democrats in office are monotheists, mostly Christian.
    But among the atheist democrats what are they hypocritical about?
     
  9. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    I agree that it would and I would agree with the outcome. Most Democrats are Christian, by a vast majority. Most Republicans are also Christian. So the thread points out oddities about the theology v. political philosophy of the majority of the Republican party, whereas your proposed thread would (presumably) point out the oddities regarding the secular philosophy v. political philosophy of a minority within the Democratic party.

    As if that weren't difference enough...I am not sure "atheist principles." are a single coherent set of principles at all, Democratic atheists are free to support abortion on demand, or welfare for the poor, or bailouts for the subprime-struck homeowners. Republican atheists (yes, Virginia, there are Republican atheists) are free to believe that abortion is murder, welfare is bad, and homeowners are idiots for taking out those mortgages. Because atheists do not have an agreed upon book from which to learn their values, their values are all over the place.

    The oddity is, that although Christians *do* have a single book that supposedly should guide their values, they ignore that book when it suits them.

    If you want to start a thread that I would support, start one on how Democratic Christian's political positions deviate from those of the Bible. That's the direct parallel to this thread.
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Where's the part in the Bible where Jesus talked about the sanctity of national borders?
     
  11. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    He did say: "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (right before he likened the Canaanite woman and her sick daughter to dogs). That may be more tribalism than nationalism though. Also, at the time, He was in Canaan, undocumented.

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  12. shichimenshyo Caught in the machine Registered Senior Member

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    You are so f$cking whiney its embarrassing.
     
  13. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” (“Ἀπόδοτε οὖν τὰ Καίσαρος Καίσαρι καὶ τὰ τοῦ Θεοῦ τῷ Θεῷ”) (Matthew 22:21).
     
  14. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Now how about in context;

    Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession.”
    Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”
    He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
    The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
    He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.”
    “Yes, Lord,” she said, “but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.”
    Then Jesus answered, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
    —Matthew 15:21-28, NIV


    The image Jesus has chosen is an image of endearment, not insult. The picture of supper-time, with little kids at the table, and their pet "puppies" (the Greek word for 'dog' here is not the standard, 'outside' dog--which MIGHT BE an insult--, but is the diminutive word, meaning 'household pets, little dogs'...) at their feet, maybe tugging on their robes for food or play. The puppies, dear to the children and probably so too to the master (cf. 2 Sam 12.3f: but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised it, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food, drank from his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him.), were to be fed AFTER the children (notice: not DENIED food--there was no "NO" in Jesus image--only "WAIT"). But the temporal order is clear--Jesus must take care of His disciples FIRST, and if meeting her need involved interrupting their rest and GOING SOMEWHERE, then it was going to have to wait,

    But the Lord, recognized her as one of his own as a deciple, and met her needs immediately.
     
  15. superstring01 Moderator

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    He doesn't directly, but he does admonish the Rabbis to "...render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's."

    Also, he doesn't say anything against them, therefore, there is nothing inherently wrong with them.

    Also, do you REALLY want a borderless world at this particular era in history?

    ~String
     
  16. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I would point out the hypocracy for Christians to limit their compassion to our national borders. Actually, many Christians go to great pains to help those in other countries. It's just the fake ones that get all bothered about using our nation's wealth to assist those that happen to be here. Personally, I recognize the practical need to preserve what we have for ourselves.
     
  17. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    He still likened her and her daughter to dogs. Worse, He forced her to agree that the compaison was apt before he deigned to help. Why? Because He was sent for the children of Israel and the Phoenicians weren't Israelis.

    John the Baptist was the same way, as the angel said of him before his birth, "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God." God had a plan, it seems to me.

    The "tossing bread to dogs" line has also always also been associated with "casting pearls before swine" and giving what is holy to dogs line from the Sermon on the Mount (see here and note the footnote in the cross-reference). There was a real sense that these things were to be meted out judiciously, to the right people, not to the "other" (much like granting benefits to illegal immigrants).
     
  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    no one would post in it because democrat atheists keep to them selves and do not try and inflict their beliefs on everyone else.
     
  19. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    No you are stretching, he was teaching, to the Disciples, who being Jews needed to realizes that their future mission was not only to the Jews, but to the rest of mankind.

    I see no where in this, that it doesn't allow for non-Jews to become brothers in faith to Jesus, and Christians.

    Yes you really are stretching things to try and make a point that doesn't exist, Jesus came to save all mankind, not just the Jews, and here;

    In this dialogue the woman is raised from one level of faith to another until she attains an extraordinary level. She goes to the apostles as we might turn to the angels and saints for help. The disciples said, "Let's get rid of this woman." They were not helpful at all. Jesus did not answer their request either. But notice what he said: "My mission is only to the lost sheep of Israel." He appeals to his official mission. She is a pagan and his mission is to those of the household of Israel. On one level this is good reasoning and shows our Lord's sensitivity to do only what he sees the Father doing. He does only what he is sent to do; he does not want to exceed it. A mission or ministry always presupposes that we are prepared to function on God's terms.

    The Canaanite woman interpreted this statement to mean, "Nothing doing; I only work miracles for Israelites. Sorry" In response, she comes forward and prostrates at his feet, full length, groveling in the dust. Her cry is: "Help!" This is the prayer that Meister Eckhart says pierces the heavens. It is totally focused on one objective. This cry of desperation from a person who feels rejected by God in prayer says everything--a plea, it would seem, that would touch the heart of a stone. And yet Jesus gives no reply. What has become of the divine mercy?

    But the divine mercy is not sentimentality It relentlessly puts the ultimate realities of life before her so that she can say with total honesty, "I can't do it myself; I must have your help!" And God is saying nothing.

    "It is not right," Jesus says, "to take the food of the children and to throw it to dogs." How could Jesus say such a thing? The Canaanite woman is not put off by this insult any more that she was by his silence and rejection. She answers in effect, "Lord, you are right. But have you thought of this possibility? I'm not asking for the food of the children; I'm not asking for a loaf of bread. Even the dogs under the table sometimes pick up a few crumbs that fall by mistake. How about dropping me one of those crumbs?"

    Jesus responds, "Oh my dear lady, your faith is terrific! You can have anything you want--the whole world, the universe, anything!" Everything belongs to those who have reached this level of faith. The cosmos was created for them. Such is the scenario; it keeps being played out in our lives. We can accept it like the Canaanite woman or back off.
     
  20. maxg Registered Senior Member

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    No you repeatedly slam immigrants (regardless of their immigration status) but then try to hide behind the claim that you really only dislike illegal immigrants (a strategy that's unfortunately all too common).

    Here are some of your quotes about LEGAL immigrants (and this is just from one thread):

    You're one of the most hateful people on this board and your pretensions of Christian love & charity are ridiculous.
     
  21. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    That is certainly not the case here on the East Coast. There is tremendous anti-Latino sentiment. They typically manifest it as laws that theoretically target only illegal immigrants, but the laws are crafted as dragnets to bring in all immigrants. Legal immigrants, naturalized citizens and native-born citizens of Latino ancestry are migrating out of some of the redneck counties in Virginia because the definition of "reasonable suspicion" is vague. The cops pull over anyone for DWL (driving while Latino). Nobody carries their birth certificate or their naturalization papers in their car, so they end losing half a day's pay while the municipal government makes it as difficult as possible for them to prove their right to be here.
    You just boil over with hatred. It's hard to miss.
    I'm almost sorry that I'll be dead when the U.S. economy collapses and people like you have to do whatever it takes to find a place to live where your family won't starve to death. A true Christian would feel sympathy for people who are so bereft of hope in countries that have been politically manipulated by the United States for a hundred years, that they leave their loved ones behind and risk death by hunger, brigandism, exploitation, and heat exposure to cross the border that marks the greatest disparity in per-capita GDP of any two adjacent countries on the planet. If I were a mean person I'd hope that some day you get to have that experience and when you finally get where you're going people curse at you for merely breaking a law. Fortunately I'm not, but from what I know of your religion your god is a textbook case of an abusive parent who loves to "test" his children with pain and suffering, so perhaps it will happen to you anyway and you will be obligated to thank him for it.
    I'm hardly a biblical scholar but that is an oft-quoted line. It is customarily interpreted to mean that Christians are simply expected to be good law-abiding citizens who don't rock the boat and bring the wrath of the government down on their movement. It's not about the marking the borders of Caesar's kingdom.
    Civilization has been a ten-thousand year struggle to overcome our pack-social instinct with reasoned and learned behavior. We've transcended from packs to villages to tribes and even though the tribes have grown we're still kind of stalled at the tribal level of civilization. I give Abrahamic religion a lot of credit for that because it reinforces the "us versus them" way of looking at society that comes with our Stone Age instincts.

    Clearly we're not ready for a borderless civilization because there are still Abrahamists among us. In order to transcend tribalism and live in harmony and cooperation without borders, first we have to transcend Abrahamism.
     
  22. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Now you are making a point that is not in evidence, Sandy has on many occasions stated that this is about Illegal Immigration, do you insist that she start everyone of her post with the qualifier that this is addressed about Illegal Immigration, well I will tell you that, about illegal Immigration I agree with everyone of her post, if you are here and your status is that of being undocumented, we should have you rounded up, were ever you live, work, or look for work, you should be deported, and before you go you do a year building a fence across the southern border, and when you complete your section you are moved to the other side of it.

    No more nice guy, no more anchor babies, if you have a kid on this side of the Border, you go back, and its your choice, put the kid up for adoption, or take it back with you, but you don't stay.


    Love and Charity is one thing and it comes from the heart, not stolen by seeking into America and using our services with out the ability to pay and no intention of paying, Love and Charity is given from the Heart not forced down one throat from bleeding Heart Liberals like you who use my money to
    feel good about themselves, if you want to take care of them do it with your own money, sponsor a family with your own money, not mine, you take the responsibility first.

    Me I give to charity, like Sandy it is my money sent to my choice of recipients, not the States, Not Yours, and if the State and People like you didn't rip me off for so much to take care of Illegal Law Breaker, I would be able to give even more, but I have no sympathy for those who break the Immigration Laws of our Nation and use our system to send money back to Mexico, with no intention of becoming citizens, and then use our health systems with out the intention of paying, over load our legal system and jails, rape murder, maim, and steel, depress our wages, and then have the effrontery to complain about the fact that we want to enforce our laws.

    Like Sandy and the vast majority of Americans, screw em', and the feet they walked in on.

    NO AMNESTY!

    NO FREE HEALTH CARE!

    NO WELFARE!

    NO INSTATE TUITIONS!

    NO SCHOOLING UNTILL ALL OF THE LEGAL AMERICAN GET A COLLEGE EDUCATION!

    EVERY CRIMINAL ALIEN IN OUR PRISON SYSTEM MOVED TO THE BORDER BUILDING THE FENCE!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2007
  23. maxg Registered Senior Member

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    Sorry but how do you explain the long series of quotes I provided that were about all immigrants (and in the context of that thread are clearly seperated from her posts about illegal immigrants).

    Sandy may say a lot of things but I don't have to believe it just because she says it.

    As for your own opinions about illegal immigrants, I don't really care. And your shouting makes me care even less.
     

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