When I was a kid, I learned that photons were particles consisting of oscillating electric and magnetic fields. However, what if an photon has a non-oscillating static electric field? What if the atoms that emit photons emit a group of photons with different electric field strengths that when observed from a distance, resemble a wave. Let me try to explain: Let's say that the static electric field strength of a photon can have the values -10 through 10. This is how the emmision of the photons would look: Photon1=0 Photon2=3 Photon3=7 Photon4=10 Photon5=7 Photon6=3 Photon7=0 Photon8=-3 Photon9=-7 Photon10=-10 etc....... If this was the case, a stream of photons would appear as a oscillating electric (and magnetic) wave, even though each individual photon would have a static electric field. Is this possible, or did I seriously screw up. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Tom
Prosoothus When I was a kid, I learned that photons were particles consisting of oscillating electric and magnetic fields. Light consists of oscillating electric and magnetic fields, these fields consist of photons; the quanta of light. Is this possible, or did I seriously screw up. Yes, you seriously screwed up. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Q, Yeah, right. Today you're saying that I screwed up, but next week it'll be your idea. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Tom
Can anyone point out any errors in this alternative photon model (besides Q, of course Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!). By the way, under this model, red shifts would be the result of gravity moving the individual photon particles apart, thereby decreasing the frequency of the wave. Tom
Can anyone point out any errors in this alternative photon model (besides Q, of course) Should I be Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! or Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ?
Tom, <i>When I was a kid, I learned that photons were particles consisting of oscillating electric and magnetic fields.</i> That is a rough description. A photon is a wave packet, consisting of many superposed electromagnetic waves. <i>However, what if an photon has a non-oscillating static electric field?</i> Then it wouldn't exist. An electromagnetic wave is a self-supporting electromagnetic oscillation. The changing electric field creates a magnetic field, which in turn creates a new electric field, and so on. Thus the wave propagates. If either field doesn't change, there can be no wave.
James, But what is a wave?? Is it a single object with an oscillating field, or is multiple objects with variable static fields?? I assumed that the photons magnetic field is simply the result of the photon's electric field and it's motion. In other words, if a photon could be brought to a stop, I think it's magnetic field would disappear, but it's electric field would still be present (like an electron). Tom
Tom, <i>But what is a wave?? Is it a single object with an oscillating field, or is multiple objects with variable static fields??</i> A wave is a pulse of energy, usually in a medium. A "variable static field" is a contradiction in terms. Either the field is variable or it is static. It can't be both. <i>I assumed that the photons magnetic field is simply the result of the photon's electric field and it's motion. In other words, if a photon could be brought to a stop, I think it's magnetic field would disappear, but it's electric field would still be present (like an electron).</i> No. If you stop a photon its electric field vanishes along with the magnetic field.
James, You didn't understand what I was saying. Imagine if a photon is a stream of particles instead of one particle. Even though each of these "particles" in the stream has a fixed electric and magnetic field, it's neighboring particles can have different fixed values for their fields. Therefore, up close each particle has a fixed field but from a distance, the sum of all the individual particles would resemble a sine wave. Crisp: What is your idea about this? Is it possible? Tom
Hi Tom, I don't see the use for dividing up what is considered to be an elementary particle. Do you have any practical reasons for doing so ? Bye! Crisp
Crisp, The photon is a problem in particle physics because it's the only particle that has an oscillating electric and magnetic field. I think that it would be far easier to explain an electromagnetic wave as a series of particles with fixed fields, instead of explaining how and why a photon oscillates. Don't you agree? Tom
If you want some brain fodder, consider the idea that matter, say an electron is actually two photons or photon like particles traveling at C around each other. If the magnetic field cancelled and left the electric... maybe "explain" electron spin, maybe "explain" the C limit on velocity... It tempting to go this way, there is then only one kind of "particle" and interactions becomes phase shifts etc etc. Sort of interesting, but if you try the math, mostly you end up with a kind of mini black hole where the light follows the curve of its own "mass", leading to all sorts of problems. - good luck!
Tom, My question to you is: what happens when the wave has gone past? What remains? If your theory were true, there should be some detectable particle left over, with a constant electric field. That is not what is observed.
James, Imagine these particles as photons (they travel at the speed of light) but they have fixed electric fields like electrons, neutrons, or protons. The particles themselves generate the electric and magnetic fields, so when they have gone past, nothing remains (neither the particles nor the fields). Tom
