why are preditors more intelegent?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Asguard, Aug 10, 2002.

  1. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    i don't know if this should go here or in earth science but here goes (feel free to move if its wrong)

    why do the most intelegent species on earth always seem to be the preditors?

    examples are Humans, Dolphins ect
     
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  3. overdoze human Registered Senior Member

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    Several reasons (that I know of):

    <ol>
    <li>high-energy-density, protein-rich diet (helps a lot with large brains that take a lot of energy to sustain)</li>
    <li>it doesn't hurt to be cunning if you are planning on not starving to death and successfully competing for food with your peers at the same time.</li>
    <li>you must be capable of adapting to your prey. For example, as it shifts location you must shift with it (and adapt to whatever new environment there is.)</li>
    <li>you can't prevail over some types of prey unless you use nontrivial strategies -- like pack hunting, for example. So predators targeting such prey tend to be social which puts additional demands on the cognitive system.</li>
    <li>in many cases, as a predator you possess superior sensory abilities and/or coordination and navigation -- all of which take up brain real estate</li>
    </ol>
     
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  5. Lesion42 Deranged Hermit Registered Senior Member

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    6. herbivores don't need all that stuff 'cause what they eat is just sitting in front of them all day.

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  7. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    7. you must be smarter than your potential food to get it
     
  8. Firefly Registered Senior Member

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    I don't think they are the most intelligent; if they were, they would have eaten all their prey already. Also, Dolphins, arguably humans, are prey too, aren't they? Won't sharks eat dolphins? (Admittedly humans aren't really prey to anythng naturally, but there's other examples - you might say a hen is a predator cos it eats worms, but then it, in turn will be eaten by a fox. (But what eats foxes?!)) I think the only "smart" predator is humans, cos we're at the top of the food chain, whereas most other predators are also prey to something.

    Though I have a nagging feeling something I've said isn't quite right?

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  9. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

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    8. Theres some kind of Carnivore School
     
  10. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Re: Re: why are preditors more intelegent?

    about sharks and dolphins- rare

    because when a shark attacks (dolphins live together in sacks) the dolphins together beat the shark back (sharks are lone hunters) thus dolphins have overcome their weakness by living together and if there is more that 1 dolphin then sharks are no real problem

    same as with humans
     
  11. paulsamuel Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Re: why are preditors more intelegent?

    you said,
    "I don't think they are the most intelligent; if they were, they would have eaten all their prey already."

    That's not true. Prey-predator interactions are density dependent. As prey abundances decrease, predators switch prey or their abundances decrease as well. There are no instances where a predator has hunted a prey to extinction (except humans).

    Humans are not predators (evolutionarily they are opportunists, probably a lot of scavenging) but are the most intelligent species on earth. However, predators are, in general, more intelligent than prey. As far as I'm concerned, there are no satisfactory explanations for this.

    Good question, though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2002
  12. Firefly Registered Senior Member

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    But dolphins are prey to something, I'm sure of it. They're not only predators.
     
  13. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    they are a prey to sharks mostly, but they have learned to push the shark back in most cases (as observed by undervater videos).
    same as humans.
    lions can eat us, and they eat, but most times we can prevent that from happening.

    first people did the same- they gathered in small groups, because it would increase their security and higher the possibility of survival in the wild world
     
  14. Xten Registered Member

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    11
    you dont have to be that intelligent to run something down and eat it. I saw a program on the Discovery channel about these birds called "honey find birds" They love honey, but cant get it from inside the nest without being stung to death. So what they do when they find a hive is tease the local badger and lead him to the hive. The badger also loves honey and dosent care about being stung. The badger will climb in the hive get the honey comb and eat some and then, "it looks like he knows what he si doing." leavs the small bird nice chunks of honey. Thats prity smart, dont know if you would call that preditory or not though.
     
  15. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    It dosen't take much intelegence to sneak up on a leaf.
     
  16. HallsofIvy Registered Senior Member

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    Possibly because it is predators (Humans) who are defining
    "intelligence". An herbivore might decide it is a clear sign of UNintelligence to eat meat!
     
  17. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    Why would it be unintelligent to eat meat? It is packed with more nutrition than veggies so you don't need to graze 18 hours a day.


    Anyway you eat what you are born equipped to eat. Intelligence has little to do with that. A deer eats grass because there is nothing else it can extract nutrition from. A lion can't just choose to eat grass.

    Being a carnivore promotes intellegence. Only the smart live to raise young.
     
  18. HallsofIvy Registered Senior Member

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    You missed my point: intelligence is DEFINED (and studied) by predators (US!). Intelligence, in the way you specifically are talking about it (ability to get food as opposed to ability to avoid being eaten), is clearly given from the predator's point of view.

    Mankind is the "top of the totem pole" by any standard precisely because we are deciding what the standards are!
     
  19.          Reign Mack Registered Senior Member

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    I am really enjoying this debate
     
  20. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    I know of some smart herbivores.

    The gorilla or most other large primates for example. Koko, the most famous of the species, can read, write, do simple math, and use sign language. Smarter than the dumbest of people.

    Filter feeding cetacians are quite intelligent. All they do is swim in circles to feed.

    Colonial insect hives are brains within themselves.
     
  21. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    Herbivore: "Oh look, more grass. I'll eat that."

    Carnivore: "Oh look, a herd of bison. Somehow I have to separate one of them from the rest, then kill an animal that outweighs me, and deal with the food before a bigger carnivore steals it. Gotta figure out how to do this..."
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2003
  22. Nebuchadnezzaar Registered Senior Member

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    Not so, i'll give you one example, an unarmed(or even armed) human against a tiger or wolf, i'm sure there are many many more varied examples that exist.

    ps- a definition of intelligence is also required to answer this question and as far as i'm concerned there is no definitive one.
     
  23. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    the ability to use tools IS a form of intelegence
     

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