Dick Cheney and His Invisible Guests

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Michael, Jun 3, 2007.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Dick Cheney and His Invisible Guests


    Vice President Dick Cheney, whose penchant for secrecy is well known, has eliminated any public record of his guests and their visits. His office has directed the U.S. Secret Service to turn over the visitor logs so they can be treated in effect as classified documents. No copies can be kept. According to declarations filed May 25 in a lawsuit, the directive was initiated in 2001 and quietly reiterated nine months ago as the Washington Post and a public interest group were trying to track appearances by convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff.


    I find this shocking.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2007
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  3. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    well there is a bill set in motion to impeach him
     
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  5. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    You shock easily, don't you?

    If I were a government official, I'd do more than that ....I'd never write anything down, or allow anyone else to write anything, and I'll make sure that recorders and such were all eliminated. If the press or the public wanted to see any documents or such in my administration, there'd be virtually nothing to show them!

    Baron Max
     
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  7. terryoh Registered Senior Member

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    But if the President were a Democrat, then they wouldn't be allowed to do this, right?

    I'm surprised people STILL haven't learned their lesson after Watergate.
     
  8. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Hell, Terry, Watergate is one of the main reasons why no politician should ever, ever, write anything down or speak unless he's inside a soundproof vault.

    Baron Max
     
  9. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Not write anything down?
    Why?

    The fact is our founding fathers understood that corrupt people gravitate towards positions of power like flies to shit. As such they saw fit to make each branch of government balanced by the other. Part of this balance is having a well informed public. Thus we have a law that does not allow "recorders and such were all eliminated". Sure you may not use a PC, may not use a pencil and may try to keep everything in your head and you may try to get everyone around you to do the same - soon you'd be labeled a quack and legally removed from office for being a piss poor manager.

    Baron, you seem to forget that these guys WORK FOR US. We do not work for them. They are our servants. We are not their servants. When you hire a manager for your business don't you expect to be kept well informed on the comings and going of the money and the people spending your money?

    Well???
    Do you???

    If you hired a manager that told you to go f*ck yourself he was not going to let you know dick about anything he did or any person he met or how decisions were made on how your money was spent - if you did not fire him I would be shocked.

    Would it then surprise you to find that the reason he didn't want you to know about the people he was giving your money to was because they were all his buddies and they over charged you and gave him half the take - Oh, I am sure you kick his ARSE. So why be so nicey nicey with Cheney. He's a hired manager. Nothing more. If he acted on good faith then fine, there is nothing to worry about - but if he didn't then we have a RIGHT a MORAL OBLIGATION to know and then do something about it.


    Think about it like that and you'll see I meant I find it shocking Americans are standing for this ill treatment.


    Michael
     
  10. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    'Cause then no one, especailly the press, could ever prove anything! Why else would you keep such things secret???

    Yep, we hired them on a contract for four years (or whatever the term of office). And just remember, all of us did that, we all had a hand in the election even if we didn't vote at all. thus, it's the "will of the people", and it should NOT be possible for a handful of dissendents or protestors or fanatics or pollsters or news reporters to change that "will of the people".

    If we followed your ideals of government, we'd be hiring and firing people every ten or fifteen seconds. You, and others, seem to believe anything and everything, any and all accusations or even hints of misconduct, by reporters or the news media or the pollsters.

    Baron Max
     
  11. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, this makes good sense if you're a crook.

    I agree, in this last election yes this team was hired. I am happy to let them govern - so long as they are not subverting the law.

    No that's not true.

    Like I said, I am happy to let these guys govern if they are not subverting the law because that's the will of the people - I am even happy with some of this governments decisions. Immigration reform for example.

    I liked Bill Clinton and I'd be happy to see Hillary become President (actually I really wish Gore would run) but if any of those people thought they could run our government while keeping us forever in the dark - F*ck them.

    We have a right to:

    (A) have a record of all events even if the record is sealed for some time - there MUST be a record that at some point in the future it can be scrutinized. Especially when the VP is so close to Big Oil and we entered a war in a country that has much of the world's Oil and his company has profited to the tune of BILLIONS in sweet NO BIG CONTRACTS - many of which were very poorly fulfilled or not at all and Oh Ho ho all the Bull shit for why went went to war was all made-up. YES those record must be kept. He has not right to somehow eliminate them so that X years from now there is no trace of who came and who went

    (B) How the HELL are we to know if the Admin is acting to subvert the law if they attempt to literally erase the information? Jesus, here we're talking about Americans dieing because of a so-called "War on Terror" and Republicans stick their collective head in the sand???? yet Clinton has a pizza and BJer and they DEMANDED that Star spend millions upon millions traveling the globe and even personally tasting bills man-muck JUST to make sure nothing fishy was hiding in there that only his taste bugs may reveal (that;s true too).

    Talk about hypocrisy!!!???

    While I thought it was a big waste of money - I would as soon seen Bill fired than have him make a law that allows him to hide information for all time and forever.

    Surely, you'd agree to THAT??
    Michael
     
  12. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    There must be some sort of DNA strand buried deep in our genome whereby carriers simply feel better thinking they are following a leader. I see our governmental employees as servant not "leaders" and thus I expect them to act as such.

    You seem to think a Civil War is a good means to sort out our differences because there are many liberals, they are in turn breeding many more liberals, and as a collective they are encroaching on you. You think the vote will not go your way and thus a gun a better option. What is a democracy if not the will of the people? Liberal or Conservative it's still the will of the people.

    Also, it's shocking that Americans would allow a VP to hide information from them. Considering the war he promulgated was found out to have been based on BS and that his close personal friends are getting filthy rich off this war - one would think he should be the last person who can get away with hiding information.


    It's like Republicans don't WANT to know the dirt on their leaders because they think of them as exactly that - our LEADERS. They are not our leaders they are servants.
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    That's against the law.

    It's a felony. Impeachable offense.

    It's also impossible to get anything done that way.
     
  14. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    So do I. But wait ...what if you and I disagree as to how they should act? Should you and I fight it out on the battlefield to see who's right and who's wrong? ...LOL!

    When, in the course of human events, it sometimes becomes necessary for a people to take up arms and beat the shit outta' those who would oppress the people. I think, though I could be wrong, that's exactly where and how our revolution came about. And, I think it's also how the Civil War came about.

    Which "the people"? And what if part of the group of "the people" feel that they're being oppressed by the other group of "the people"? Should they just hunker down and accept what they feel is oppression, just because "the people" have deemed it so?

    You act as if everyone sees things exactly as you do. How could you possibly see something like that ...don't you watch the news? ...don't you live in the same world that I live in?

    Baron Max
     
  15. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    What law? Please be more specific, because I don't know any such law.

    What do you suppose people did before writing was invented ...just sit around doing nothing?

    Baron Max
     
  16. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    He has probably received warning that he will be blamed for something in the near future.
     
  17. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Huh? Who? ...Michael? Who the fuck are you talking about? Who gave who a warning?

    Baron Max
     
  18. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    Cheney got warned by "someone"
     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode44/usc_sup_01_44_10_22.html

    Not only must a President or Vice P keep records of all public business (the doings of their jobs are public business), but they must release them (with certain specified exceptions) to that public within 12 years of leaving office. This administration has been fighting hard against the release of some Reagan administration documents, especially related to Iran Contra, as well as refusing to release legally requested records of its business to oversight agencies (this started back in 2001) http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-3281598_ITM

    http://clinton.archives.gov/project_overview/presidential_records_act.html

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20040430/index.htm
    http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/27607
    http://uspolitics.about.com/b/a/208051.htm

    Some private business must also be reported: http://www.answers.com/topic/ethics-in-government-act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_in_Government_Act
     
  20. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053


    What business? If there ain't no records, then there was no business, right? Perfectly safe from the law.

    See? If I was the President, I'd simply forbid anyone taking any notes, writing memos, emails, ...., no paper trails anywhere about anything. Everything that ever got done would be verbally, in secret meetings, with secret people, about secret things, ...with no recordings!

    Baron Max
     
  21. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    20,285
    I feel like Cheney is dirty and is trying to hide something. I think Republicans are almost scared about what sort of Monster they elected.


    As to the "We the People". Of course there will always be a minority of people who want some things different then the majority and sometimes there will be a minority of people who want many things different. They can vote and that's it. No guns - just vote. Look at Amish - they bought very large swaths of land and they lead their lives as they see fit. I see no reason why towns of conservative people, via town meetings and town councils, can not do the same?
     
  22. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Well, we don't usually accuse or convict people by what we feel. But in some cases it might be fun to do that, don't ya' think?

    Why no guns? It's how this great nation was formed, we should use guns at every voting place and every governmental meeting ....things might be alittle more honest and upstanding, don'tcha think?

    It's illegal, that's why!!

    Baron Max
     
  23. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Which is why we need those records

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    What? The Amish? Local Laws? Town meetings?
     

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