I was defending myself from (another) personal attack. How about you read the thread and know what the hell you're talking about before you make snotty commentsPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Suggesting that homosexuality is on par with childhood sexual abuse is one of the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Do you have any clue what survivors of sexual abuse go through? The lifelong scars many of them carry? gawd.
Nope, not comparing homo marriage to pedophilia, I was comparing the changing of laws. You'll note in your first sentences above that you got my point quite easily, but then you turned around and act like you didn't get my point. That's rather odd of you, don't you think? You've said that it's just a legal thing, right? And you think that it's okay to change some laws for homos, right? Well, golly, if homos get to change some laws, why can't pedos change some laws, too? And incestuous couples, can't they change some laws, too? What other special-interest group might want to change some laws? No, you don't know me. If gays and lezzies want to ...ahh, do whatever they do... in the privacy of their homes - fine. But to throw it up in my face and expect me to accept it is going a bit far. You don't see "National Male Pussy-eater Day" or "National Wife Cocksucking Day", do you? But gays and lezzies throw it up in our faces, then expect us to willingly change the laws for them, special for them. I'll respect gays when all married hetero men gather in public marches proclaiming that they love licking and sucking their wives' pussy. Or when all married hetero females loudly proclaim the joys of cocksucking. Baron Max
It's a legal thing, Exp, nothing more, nothing less. And it sure ain't nothin' like what you're suggesting. If gays get to change laws to suite their own wants and desires, why can't others change laws, too? Baron Max
Depends on who you talk to, huh? Harm? What's "harm"? Does that mean only physical "harm"? Or is it "harm" for a neighbor to play his music so loudly that no one can get any sleep, thus fuck up their work days? What's "harm"? Baron Max
We do not have laws against pedophilia, we have laws against having sexual contact with children because we accept that children are unable of giving consent. Comparing pedophilia to homosexuality, even in a legal sense, doesn't hold water. We allow homosexuals to have sexual relations. We also allow, in many states, adults to enter into "spiritual" marriages with children as long as they do not consummate the relationship. There has to be another analogy that makes more sense, like adult incest laws.
Indeed. When you talk to a rational person, you get a rational opinion. On the other hand, there's you. Why did you use the word "or"? It IS physical harm for your neighbor to keep you awake at night with loud music. After all, he is sending sound waves into your house, violating your right to live in peace in your own home. I don't see why this is so hard for you to grasp. Harm is, in general terms, a violation of someone else's rights. You have yet to explain how gay marriage would violate anyone's rights. And don't try to say it violates your rights by offending you. You don't have a right not to be offended. You don't have a right to expect everyone else to conform to your own notions about how people should behave. So go ahead, try to name one legitimate right of yours that gay marriage would violate.
Yeah, and it's just a law which sets the age of consent, huh? Huh? A law! Gays want laws favorable to them, why not change other laws that are favorable for other special interest groups? I didn't do that and you know it. You're just throwing that out to keep from giving a rational reason changing some laws, but not others! Baron Max
Hmm, I think that there are many, many laws against offending members of the society. Nudity comes to mind; strip clubs near schools; advertising using nudity; racist remarks (Imus was fired for it); ...; I think there's a long, long list of such laws. Perhaps you should check the very notion, the very idea, of the word "society". I think the members of a society should, and do, force others to conform to a certain behavior which is established by the members of that society. Check it out, think about it some before you respond. Baron Max
But that's exactly what you did. If you weren't, why didn't you just say "Well, if we change the laws for homosexuals, we would have to change the laws regarding noise pollution in major cities"? Because you see homosexuality and things such as pedophilia, and incest as the same thing. But I DO understand your fear that changing one law would mean we'd have to change others. But as time has passed, our society is starting to accept homosexuals. They aren't as "freaky" to the masses as they used to be. There's even a gay channel on TV now. Will & Grace was one of the most successful shows on network TV. Queer As Folk was one of the most popular shows on premium cable (actually an excellent show). So strides have been made in understanding that homosexuality isn't this frightening thing that people once feared it to be. People are realizing that they can't "catch it" from someone, you see? And that's why I believe it's only a matter of time before gay marriage is legalized. Why do you keep saying "Why can't pedos and incestuous couples change the law"? Why are these things the same to you? There is a HUGE difference between homosexuality and these other things you mention! The reason that changing laws regarding gay marriage wouldn't equate to pedophiles changing the laws is because, for the last time, homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone! There is no exploitation involved! First of all, nobody's asking you to accept it. Gays getting married would have no impact whatsoever on your life. None. All anyone is asking is that the government make it legal for them to get married. And don't start on the whole "The American people are the ones who vote, and they won't vote for that!" because the American people wouldn't ever have to vote on that. That vote would be left up to the government. You see gay pride marches and things to that effect because gays have been discriminated against. There's no need for a Straight Sex rally, because nobody's telling straight people they can't get married, and can't have the same rights as other people. You also don't see National White History Month. Are you saying that America shouldn't be expected to accept black people? Marching and having rallies helps promote and advance a cause. They aren't doing it to rub it in your face, but to try and make people aware of their plight. Blacks have done it, women have done it, war veterans have done it. The Playboy Channel, The Girls Next Door, V.I.P, America's Next Top Model, Professional Wrestling, Girls Gone Wild, Mardi Fucking Gras! All of these things, and many, many more, extol the virtues of heterosexual sex, and the objectifying of women. How about Spring Break? What more do you want? There are plenty of examples of heterosexuality both in public and on TV.
-Funny Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! -Gay-people could establish their own church, there is plenty around already, problem solved Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
The issue isn't the Church, per se. There are pleanty of churches that will marry gay couples (Unitarian, United Methodist [I think], certain Congregationalists, United Church of Christ for example). The issue is that the US government (like many world governments) doesn't recognize those unions as legal and binding. ~String
String, excuse me if I'm completely wrong about this, but didn't you say at one point in this thread that you were gay? I was wondering, if I'm right about that, just how you are effected by this? Or, if you have ever been? If I'm wrong, I apologize.
I don't know about String, but I'm affected by it because it shows that my government will cowtow to every demand without the consent of the people. That ain't very nice, is it? And what will my government do when the pedos demand that the legal age of consent is lowered to, say, 13? Will my government cowtow to that, too, without the consent of the people? And what of the illegal drugs in this nation? Well, I'll tell you ...a few druggies are demanding that all drugs be legalized. And it seems that the government is beginning to bow to those demands, too. Hmm? And what else, what other demands, will my government bow to without the consent of the people? Don't that make ya' wonder about the future of this great nation? Baron Max
Well...the thing is that it shouldn't matter what people think. We're talking human rights here, aren't we? The gay people I've known have told me that they had been born like that, and had never felt any attraction whatsoever to the opposite sex, so I'm of the belief that they are only acting naturally. If that is indeed true, then why not allow them to marry? If people's sexuality is determined in their genes, then why suppress that? I'm not gay, and I'm not interested in men, but I'm not bothered by the fact that gay people want to get married. From everything I've experienced, the only difference between myself and them is the sexual preferences we were born with. And I see no reason to discriminate based on that. The reason that gay marriage isn't already legal is because of our lack of understanding regarding it, historically. In the brief mention of it in the Bible, it was seen as a blatant act against God; in the middle of the 20th century, it was seen as a mental illness; in modern times, it's seen as a personal choice that doesn't really hurt anybody. I think, as our understanding of it grows, and the myths are slowly discarded, we'll see that it isn't anything but the way some people are born, and it will become a totally accepted thing. I have to ask: Why do you feel the need to immediately jump to pedophilia when we're discussing this? Why are homosexuality and pedophilia analogous to you? Why is that the next natural step after gay marriage legalization? You mentioned drugs in the previous paragraph, but the answer to that, and to this one are the same, so I won't bother posting it. OK...what it all boils down to, Baron, is if something is going to cause harm to a person. Consider pedophilia, where an adult takes advantage of a confused young person. I know that you don't seem to see a real problem with being "fucked" by an aggressor at a young age, but the fact is that one person is taking advantage of another. A child of 12--for example--cannot be expected to make a proper decision on the matters of sex and relationships, so when an adult comes into the picture. An adult is typically smarter than a young child, and knows how to convince these young people...and most often, pedophiles are sexually abusing these minors against their will, and are using fear tactics to prevent them from telling anyone. That is very harmful to the psyche of the child. I've seen the effects of it. And drug use should speak for itself...people who use hard drugs are hurting themselves, and others around them. The bottom line here, Baron, is that things like sex crime, and drugs laws shouldn't be decided by popular vote. The majority should have no influence in those decisions. It should be up to the decision-makers in government, because those things involve the safety of the citizens. Gay marriage has nothing to do with that. You can't say "Well, what are they going to change next?!" because making gay marriage legal is not even in the same realm as lowering the age of consent. And I would assume that pedophiles are born the way they are as well, which is very unfortunate. They can't be allowed to have their way, sexually, because their sexual preference involves people who can be emotionally (and physically) damaged by them. Meanwhile, homosexuality hurts no one. There aren't any victims in homosexuality, Baron. And that's why you could rest assured that making gay marriage legal would most definitely not lead to other laws being changed. You're comparing apples to oranges. Can you at least understand where I'm coming from?
And that's exactly the problem with the world, with society, today ...people don't matter anymore ...it's only the individual who matters. And yet they all seem to forget that they are, whether they like it or not, are members of that society. I've heard many, many people complain that openly homosexuality is and would be harmful to the psyche of their children and their way of life. How do you think those government officials got to the position that they're in in the first place? And do they want to stay in office for the next time? It's giving in to the demands of a few radicals. If it can happen for a few gays, what small, special-interest group is next? And what will they demand? Maybe next our government well bow to the demands of the Muslim terrorists? Give up our intersts in other, friendly nations? ..just 'cause the terrorists demand it? Hell, maybe soon they'll even give in to the demands of the criminal illegal immigrants and give them amnesty for their crimes, and even reward them with full citizenship. Huh? I mean, ...a government that gives in so easily to demands, surely that's no big deal, huh? That's not what the young housewife down the street says! She says that openly gay demonstrations harm her way of life and her children. Many people think the same way ...a majority, I might add. Sure, but you don't seem to see where I'm coming from. Do you want your national government to bow to the demands of a few radicals? Even in opposition to the majority of voters, of people, of the nation? And if they bow to those demands, what else is next? Drugs? Age of consent? Abortion activists (or either side?)? When does it stop? Baron Max
Government is a fucked up thing, man. We could debate endlessly about which should be more important--the individual, or the majority--so we shouldn't even bother. That's because they are closed-minded people. How would it harm the psyche of their children? Because it makes the children ask questions? God forbid! All a parent would have to do is talk to their child, and tell them everything they know about homosexuality. And you're talking about open homosexuality...but you're not going to get rid of that. That isn't even the matter at hand here, Baron. How is letting them get married going to make the situation worse? And I've heard many, many people complain that black people are harmful to society and their way of life...what do you suppose we do about them? I understand. But I don't think government officials should be afraid of that. The nation, as a whole, is beginning to accept homosexuality on a broad scale, so I don't think this subject will be taboo for long. They aren't radicals, and there is no way of truly telling how many people in the nation are gay, largely due to unreliable data, and the practice of being "closeted". First of all, I'd like to see the data backing up your claim that a majority of Americans find homosexuality to be destructive to their livelihood. And again, open homosexuality isn't the question here--you can't get rid of that. We're talking gay marriage. And again, the reason she takes issue with it is probably her religious beliefs. Regardless, it all falls back to the lack of understanding most people have on the subject. Once they realize that their kids aren't going to "catch gay" from them, then their worries will be put to rest. They aren't asking for special laws to be made for them. They aren't asking us to stop waging war, they aren't asking us to stop using oil, they aren't asking us to do ANYTHING other than allowing them to be legally married. I understand your "downward spiral" theory, but I don't believe it has any merit. Again, gays aren't radicals. They are regular people, who were born with different sexual preference. And again, age of consent laws and drug laws are not the same as gay marriage laws. They aren't the same as abortion laws, either. The majority isn't always right, Baron. There was a time when the majority wanted to keep Africans as slaves. There was a time when the majority wanted black people to not be considered as full citizens. There was a time when the majority wanted black people to sit at the back of their buses. There was a time when the majority didn't want to allow women to vote. Those things weren't right, Baron, and it wasn't until the decision-makers realized that blacks weren't any different than us, and that women weren't inferior to men, that they changed the laws regarding them. And homosexuals shouldn't be any different. They are just another minority that is being unjustly punished for the way they are.
"homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone" False. Homosexuality hurts God.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
